Tank cycling.....help!

First topic message reminder :

a friend of mine is having problems getting her tank to cycle. if anyone could help with suggestions, we would greatly appreciate it. she has had her 10 gal tank set up since Jan 15th and has followed everything she has read but it just wont cycle for her. she started out with 1 female betta and 2 platys. Since the tank stalled in the middle of cycling, after 6 weeks, she added 2 platys and 3 dalmation mollys. She has lost 2 mollys but none of the others. She knows she overstocked but still cannot get it to finish cycling.

I dunno what popular opinion is, but I've never cycled with any sort of chemicals or additives just dechlorinator and fish. I've also done fishless with several ammonia sources. It just takes time.

Thanks for the response.
Water:
Well that helps to know there is no nitrites.
It is important to note that the Stability has not helped at all with this. In even tank I have ever used this on I saw Ammonia levels fall within 3-4 days. Nitrite should spike shortly after ammonia begins to decline.

As for the water changes they seem very reasonable. Some suggest that doing large water changes can stress the bacteria or slow cycling but honestly I have never found that to be true. The bacteria is not really held in the water column so as long as the filter remains undisturbed it really should not matter.

I would also make sure she is using the conditioner outside of the tank prior to adding the water. Also ensure the water is close to the same temperature as the water in the tank. Doing those two things can pretty much eliminate any possibility that the water change causes a problem.

I asked about the ammonia in the tap water because if it is like mine it will always be in there so doing larger water changes adds lots of ammonia to the tank. In some cases causing a spike in both ammonia and nitrite.

Chemicals:

I did a little digging and found some contradicting takes on ammo lock... (go figure right) Some say it acts to completely bind ammonia and will slow or stop a cycle. Others suggest that it like prime only converts ammonia from NH3 to NH4 leaving it available to the bacteria.
Honestly though if some people have managed to do it then I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Tank:
Nothing real unusual here. Does there appear to be enough small pores in the filters. I know some of the charcoal filters have a very thin mesh around them and really don't leave much material for the bacteria to stick on. If there is room she could always pick up a fine mesh type material from the fish store. They sell it by the sheet (3X3 sheet) and you can cut out a pad to fit the filter. This would simply give the bacteria more place to grow.

In addition to the few things I mentioned here if she has enough stability to last another week.
What "I" would do get another fine mesh pad or just a tetra mesh(white type) bag. Don't have to put anything in it since it will just act as a bio sponge. Put those in the filter and do water changes until the ammonia sits at around 1ppm. The add your stability. If a week or two goes by and your don't see any nitrites (using stability this could take twice as long without it.

Best of luck to her!

popebosephus wrote:

I dunno what popular opinion is, but I've never cycled with any sort of chemicals or additives just dechlorinator and fish. I've also done fishless with several ammonia sources. It just takes time.

Yeah I agree and it works just fine. Only problem is if you already have the fish you want to keep and would rather them not die or have a much great potential to die a faster or easier cycle is worth a shot. I also know people that don't add anything for ammonia and just use water changes to keep the concentration down. Seems to work just fine.

strikingthematch wrote:

Thanks for the response.
Water:
Well that helps to know there is no nitrites.
It is important to note that the Stability has not helped at all with this. In even tank I have ever used this on I saw Ammonia levels fall within 3-4 days. Nitrite should spike shortly after ammonia begins to decline.

As for the water changes they seem very reasonable. Some suggest that doing large water changes can stress the bacteria or slow cycling but honestly I have never found that to be true. The bacteria is not really held in the water column so as long as the filter remains undisturbed it really should not matter.

I would also make sure she is using the conditioner outside of the tank prior to adding the water. Also ensure the water is close to the same temperature as the water in the tank. Doing those two things can pretty much eliminate any possibility that the water change causes a problem.

I asked about the ammonia in the tap water because if it is like mine it will always be in there so doing larger water changes adds lots of ammonia to the tank. In some cases causing a spike in both ammonia and nitrite.

Chemicals:

I did a little digging and found some contradicting takes on ammo lock... (go figure right) Some say it acts to completely bind ammonia and will slow or stop a cycle. Others suggest that it like prime only converts ammonia from NH3 to NH4 leaving it available to the bacteria.
Honestly though if some people have managed to do it then I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Tank:
Nothing real unusual here. Does there appear to be enough small pores in the filters. I know some of the charcoal filters have a very thin mesh around them and really don't leave much material for the bacteria to stick on. If there is room she could always pick up a fine mesh type material from the fish store. They sell it by the sheet (3X3 sheet) and you can cut out a pad to fit the filter. This would simply give the bacteria more place to grow.

In addition to the few things I mentioned here if she has enough stability to last another week.
What "I" would do get another fine mesh pad or just a tetra mesh(white type) bag. Don't have to put anything in it since it will just act as a bio sponge. Put those in the filter and do water changes until the ammonia sits at around 1ppm. The add your stability. If a week or two goes by and your don't see any nitrites (using stability this could take twice as long without it.

Best of luck to her!

you're welcome. she mixes her dechlorinator in her clean water bucket and then adds her water to make sure that it mixes with the water. i don't know if she checks the temp. i will have to ask her about that one. she should be able to add some more mesh. if not, i have some since i took out my charcoal filter and switched to just the mesh, i can give her a cut of some. what if she took the charcoal filter completely out of one of the them and put just the mesh in? the weird thing is that even using the ammo lock, it's still very high.

Yeah I never use any charcoal or carbon and never had a problem to me it is just a gimic to get you to buy more expensive stuff. At this point I would only try to add some mesh. If the charcoal is carrying any bacteria at all we wouldn't want to ruin that.

Unless you have an expensive test kit the normal API kits will read both NH3 and NH4 since these product normally convert 3 to 4 it will still read as if ammonia is present even if it is in a less lethal NH4 form.

So the moral of the original post is not to overstock a brand new tank setup?