Question for Mouth Brooding experts

First topic message reminder :

Ever successfully keep several holding females together?

Like if you have 3 females holding, seperate them in a 20long, keep them until they spit, remove them afterwards, and have all or most fry survive?

...

the females are crazy when you remove fry from them. they will pick up any fry that might be around not only thier own.

vman wrote:

Hey all I thought I'd put my 46 yrs of fish keeping , 37 of those keeping mouth brooders . I never strip my females now but I went through the experience of trying it 25 yrs. ago . If they don't carry full term at least by the 3rd spawn, which it is normal not to carry the 1st time , I treat them as I would a male that can't do his part & end her breeding . As to shocking the females some of my females that I've had could be moved by hand waiting at the top of the tank when they were ready . I have NEVER lost a female to moving but I have lost some due to stripping , which is very stressful to her . I agree with fern completely that stripped fish are more apt to not carry full term . To answer the original question I've kept up to 12 females , of the same species, together in a 30 gal breeder with complete success . You have to be careful in what species you can mix . I wouldn't want to have a S. fryeri with any Mbuna because they eat Mbuna fry in the wild so she would eat the other fry to recondition & if the fryeri fry are larger the will attack & kill smaller fry as will most predatory fry . I also leave my females with their fry longer to condition them before returning them to the breeding tank . For your info KMX the egg tumbler was originally used for inexperienced keepers so they could have fry not experienced keepers . Happy Thanksgiving everyone !!!

vman wrote:

Both may not . I had some females that slowed down breeding while I was stripping fry & I didn't have good breeder females out of those broods . I agree with unknown on the rest . Just a little more info too . people that use the egg tumbler method do usually have more fry because experienced females will cull fry that are deformed or not fully developed . I first seen this on a L. fuelleborni when she released her fry 1 was swimming sideways & still had a lot of it's egg sack . she turned & picked it up . I stood there watching for it's return but I never saw it again . hmm natural culling ...

Everyones experiance is diffrent. I have never let a female hold full term & all my fish ar fine.

Egg tumblers are NOT for inexperienced keepers b/c most inexperienced keepers don't even know what a egg tumbler is. If you use it correcly it will be much n your advantage. If you tubmble to hard then yes your fry will come out defromed and not healthy. If you do it right they will come out great. You got to know how to use one.



In my time, I have never had a female slow in breeding when I stripped. They have breed faster though and more #'s.


The ony thing I was trying to tell fern is that, there is no way should could prove her theory with her short experince with mouth broders. I just did not want people thinking that is true, if it's not. I WAS NOT SAYING SHE WAS WRONG either...Just saying there is no way to prove that theory. I was not trying to pick on her or step on her toes. fern. (hints the reason why you have the keys to the forum)

I have heard but haven't tried this, Some people use surrogate moms. Like if I had a female that wouldn't hold worth a darn and lets say a moorii female holding (excellent moms) I could strip both and toss the moorii eggs and put the other fishes eggs in with the moorii and she would pick them up and carry them.
I have left some moms in with their fry for up to 3 weeks without any issues. I have also had them turn on their fry the next day, the only one that has done that is the Pseudocrenilabrus multicolor victoriae.


I know bro, there are lots of different ways of doing things That's why we have this forum to share the hows and whys of what we do.

Joe the fulus you and Isaac have were stripped from their mom, it took them 4-5 months to get the holding part down. That's why yall got them so cheap, I don't like to keep fish that wont do all the work. I have a batch of fry from them in grow out. I also bought another line of fulus that were held to term. My plan is to make 2 colony's with them. The original fulus have amazing red but the other colors are dull. The new line I got has sucky red but all the other colors are amazing. I plan on pulling 2 males from my line and mix them in with a few girls from the new line. I will also keep one colony of just the new line. The mix will be to try to get the best color. The new line only colony will be to preserve that line.
I'm only going to use my males because those fry were stripped and I really don't want to mess with stripped females. I will probably give them to Isaac just so he has a better breeding ratio

Oh the fulus you and Isaac have are from deadmans line via curtis, just so you have a bit of history....... Deadman is a but his lines are nice.

so you sold me degenerate whores! (they like to get pregnant but don't like to take care of their kids) LMAO oh man, i'm on a roll today! lmao

I also had that surrogate mom theory bouncing around in my head..

Figured if I have two or three moms holding very little eggs, I could strip and put the eggs in with one mom, maybe one that has done well in the past, and she could raise the good batch of fry and I would only have to have one mom out of commission while the others could go back into the mix.

I like your plans with the new line, and, as you know, I already want some to do something similar.. more color..

so is it appropriate to say I have 'Deadmans' line? or is it standard practice or better to say the collection point? or...?

Collection point. Deadman should get no credit

He shouldn't but they are a nice line. I think they came in on the most recent vic collection.... I'm guessing 2007? is when the last lake vic collection was?

Joe, let me play with the mix and see what happens, could get the best of both, could get the worst of both. It may take some selective breeding on my part to get some real beauty's out of them. It will take time but it should be worth it.

I like the idea of mixing lines to get the best colors from each. It's going to take years to get all of them grown out to see what their colors could be. It will also depend on which one is the dominant male. Generally they have the best colors and the other males colors will dull. Good luck to all of you. I'm still trying to get my second set of mouth brooders to start breeding. My Electric Yellows bred like crazy. I stripped at two weeks and within another week the moms would be holding again.

patients is the key to selective breeding IMO.

Oh I do know that....... Luckily fulus grow quite quickly if properly taken care of.

Proper care trumps everything. Good food, water quality, and water chemistry go a loooooooonnnnng way in producing fast growing, colorful fish.

Well I do have 6 1" fry in a 75g now, those are Matumbi Hunter's though..... They do grow insanely fast in a big tank with good filtration and plants and good clean water and high quality food.

ive done that a few times as long as they are the same kind of fish
you dont want to mix you fry up

Fern wrote:

I have heard but haven't tried this, Some people use surrogate moms. Like if I had a female that wouldn't hold worth a darn and lets say a moorii female holding (excellent moms) I could strip both and toss the moorii eggs and put the other fishes eggs in with the moorii and she would pick them up and carry them.
I have left some moms in with their fry for up to 3 weeks without any issues. I have also had them turn on their fry the next day, the only one that has done that is the Pseudocrenilabrus multicolor victoriae.


I know bro, there are lots of different ways of doing things That's why we have this forum to share the hows and whys of what we do.

Joe the fulus you and Isaac have were stripped from their mom, it took them 4-5 months to get the holding part down. That's why yall got them so cheap, I don't like to keep fish that wont do all the work. I have a batch of fry from them in grow out. I also bought another line of fulus that were held to term. My plan is to make 2 colony's with them. The original fulus have amazing red but the other colors are dull. The new line I got has sucky red but all the other colors are amazing. I plan on pulling 2 males from my line and mix them in with a few girls from the new line. I will also keep one colony of just the new line. The mix will be to try to get the best color. The new line only colony will be to preserve that line.
I'm only going to use my males because those fry were stripped and I really don't want to mess with stripped females. I will probably give them to Isaac just so he has a better breeding ratio

Oh the fulus you and Isaac have are from deadmans line via curtis, just so you have a bit of history....... Deadman is a but his lines are nice.

Yes im aware of that now lol, but i've been ignoring that issue with the fulus and let them be..., i got a holding mom now, doens't look like shes got many eggs in there but at least is someting, im not planning of striping her i hope i have luck with that in the next week or so....

I found a few small fry in the tank yours came from Isaac, one of them at least knows how to hold to term.
I told you guys that when ya got them.......