trying to breed discus (PIC HEAVY)

First topic message reminder :

hey all,
as you know i have gotten lucky enough to have spawned discus in my community tank a few times.
seems like that was the easy part. the hard part is raising them to young juvies. or so i read.
so heres the start of it all.

same here alan..lol

Get a 'sea monkey' thing for your kid and a jug of eggs, its for the kids! And no you don't know why the 'sea monkeys' keep disappearing

funny fern,
i just bought some decapsulated brine shrimpo eggs on e bay

i also had good sucess with Harkai First bites its a powder deal have alot of fry that liked it the rams angels and discus in general

Would frozen daphnia and cyclops-eeze work well too?

i use the hikari first bite on my fry from my live bearers and it seems to work well.

maybe, but the gurus swear on live BBS for the first feedings, then after that anything goes

Don't let anyone fool you!.......Brine shrimp nauplii (freshly hatched) is superior to anything else......Whether you allow the parents to care for them at first or remove the eggs to another tank, the first and continued feeding of fresh healthy brine shrimp will produce the best results (healthy strong fry)..............You may get them to eat other stuff, but the brine shrimp is by far the best way to go...

It is a messy smelly business hatching brine shrimp.....I usually had 4 to 6 hatcheries going when I had numerous fry from Angels, Dwarf Cichlids, Discus, and other fry that had developed enough to eat brine shrimp........I often used micro worms and infusoria for smaller fry.

There are several DIY shrimp hatcheries on the web but I liked the 2 liter plastic bottles with the bottom cut off and turned upside down with another cut off bottom slipped over the neck and cap for a base.......I used rigid air tubing hooked to an air pump to pump in a stream of bubbles to agitate the eggs.......Turn off the air pump and use a flash light to draw the shrimp to one side where you can get them with a baster......I often discarded each if all the shrimp eggs were all hatched......You might get a few days out of one hatchery, that is why I had several going that were started a couple of days apart.

so what is the salt to water ratio and what kind of salt is used?

Use 1 2/3 to 2 tablespoons of non iodized, rock salt, or sea salt per quart or liter of water......pH of 8 to 8.5..You can adjust with baking soda. You can judge by the size of the hatch whether to increase or decrease the salt amount.......Try a 1/4 teaspoon of eggs per container and look at the amount that hatches....You can vary the amount of eggs so that the hatch is not too big......Eggs ain't cheap so you don't want to over use them.......Use good cooking type of measuring spoons.

I had all of this written down some where, but I can't find it....There are many opinions on the best way to hatch the things......Write down what you do and when you get good batches you will have the steps written so you can repeat success....

cool dano, your advise is always welcomed here, especially since you've been down this road before.

so the pair is not doing anymore dancing. i think thay are worn out for a bit. its been almost 2 weeks i think.
so i might put them back in the main tank and try my luck with the blue diamond and leopard pair. thet are still going at it in the community tank.
i'll do it next week. they have some scraps on thier body from wrestling with the others. i dont want to have any issues.

One thing you must keep in mind is that Discus are Cichlids.......Cichlids are rough and tumble fish...They are peaceful one day and mean aggressive the next.....It is a myth that a pair bond for life......They can and do switch partners.......That is why you must keep a bonded pair in their own tank without competition........In groups they will establish a pecking order and there will be chasing and nipping......Occasionally you will get a particular fish that will harass another fish without mercy or even kill it... Moving this fish to another tank may work, but it also may carry it's aggression with it...Even the so called "wild captured" Discus behave in a similar fashion.......Actual wild Discus are rare and many sold as wild are usually from many generations of domestic fish that haven't been selectively bred for the various color variations.

Cross breeding of the various color variations usually end up producing unattractive offspring......I can attest to that from personal experience with Marlboro Reds and Pigeon Bloods.....I think there are a few pics on here of the yellow guys with black spots and red and black fins....They didn't seem very hardy either.

Unless you buy from creditable breeders and dealers, you cannot tell what color variation you are getting.....Specially the fish coming from Asia or dealers in the USA using Asian fish.................Some of the Asian fish are pretty and fairly hardy, but it is a cr@p shot getting them..............Many of the credible breeders sell their culls also.

As for breeding these fish in the average aquarists home tanks a lot of factors come into play.......With all the selective breeding in the US and Asia, the fish have lost a lot of their natural ability to produce good fry.......The fish now days can live and mate in a wider range of water quality, but I wonder if something is lost when they are so far from their wild ancestors.

Why won't cr@p come out cr@p........That is the weirdest censoring I have seen yet.....

Refering to the next to the last paragraph of my previous post.

sounds right

It was getting way overused.

Very very good info Dano! That's the best info I have heard on the brine yet!
Do you think my discus pair will make some decent looking fry when it happens?

I agree wit u dano, maybe my wilds will bring good fish. Idk ill ask snook where he got them but I think their wild caught ones, and I can attest to them being sick very easily.

Fern.....To non expert like me I don't think the fry would grow out in an unpleasing way......To a devoted breeder and expert, anything that does not fit the standard for the accepted color varieties would be considered ugly monsters......I had a few odd looking hatches, but I personally found the ones I kept pleasing to me.......I had some yellows with black finnage with pepper spots on their backs that I was really fond of, but they were not very hardy and I spent a lot of time trying to keep them well.

My Blue Diamonds would probably be considered garbage to an expert, but they are my babies....They are the last Discus I will ever own.

Pillierox1.....It is very possible that yours may be "wild caught", but it is likely that they may be second or third generation from uncrossed wild fish.......In any case they need the highest water quality that you can provide.

They seem to be fine with my tap water and are eating lik pigs. Im doing everything lik im.suppose to do to insure they live a long life

Oh yes I'm sure that to an expert all of mine should have been culled But like you said, they are my babies and I love them
I believe the grandfather of my blue diamonds is a red spotted leopard, So I know they can throw fry all across the board on the colors.....

lol yep i dont know exactly wat my tigger is but they say shes a red turq. she looks more blue than red

pillierox.....Read this article.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+834+850&pcatid=850

i guess she is but she wont cooperate tho she wants to hind behind my plants which she rarely does but wen she wants her naps.

Pill.....check everything to see if something is stressing this fish......A fish hiding or being lethargic is a sign of stress.

Naw she just rests now again, she vibrant as ever and is up in the front of the tank. She nows its feeding time too, and me taking plants out and moving is going to stress her a little. Pepper is fine as well so if something was wrong both would be stressing

Not so....................Just like people, things that bother one may not bother anyone else.......If it were me I would be checking things.