Want to start a Saltwater FOWLR tank

Want to know what all I will need, and how much of it to get a 55 galllon tank up & running.
I know that I will need salt (duh). but I want to do a sumpless set up, the guy @ the lfs said that if I had my skimmer (which doubles as a filter, yay for an old skimmer!) and a couple of 55 gallon HOB filters would be good for the filtration side of it. what else will I need, like, do I need live sand or not. also, how much live rock will I need ect. ect. ect.

Okay, Here it goes... This is a very easy answer and a very tough answer all at the same time. The reason for this is.... is because your going to get a million different answers from a million different people, all thinking they have the right answer when in fact they are just basing a bias opinion off what they have... So here we go, Ill tell you in my experience what has worked for me. First I'll start off with filters. In my opinion the best filter money can buy IS a HOB filter. To be exact on the brand it would be an Emperor 400. A lot of people may disagree with me on this, and thats fine. But as far a simple HOB filter goes these are the top of the line filters. (Most people don't know this, but... The way that HOB filters with the bio wheels came around in the fish industry is because these are used in water treatment factories...yes thats right poop factories. Huge bio wheels are used to clean and treat the water and the fish industry later came and used those same ideas! So obviously they are very, very effective.) So for bang for buck I believe that the Emperor 400 filters are the best filter money can buy for HOB or for canister filters. Me personally I have 2 Fluval Fx5, but thats because I got them for a steal of a price! Next would be salt... Duh. Next I come to Skimmers... Good ole skimmers... and this is where a lot of people may disagree with me. Personally I think a skimmer is the biggest waste of money you can possibly put into a saltwater set up. It's like pissing in the wind. I have broke down and bought some of the most expensive skimmers, including brands like Reef Octopus, etc... and other TOP of the line skimmers, and they all are POS. The best possible way to keep Nitrites and Nitrates down is to NOT overfeed and do water changes, using RO water. I know a lot of critics will tell you otherwise though that a skimmer is a must have especially in a reef tank, but I've run plenty of huge reefs tanks myself with no skimmer just water changes and some Emperor 400's. As far as live rock goes, I would say that you need some... but it all depends on what kind of tank your setting up whether it be a fish only tank or a reef tank. If it's a reef tank I would say you would want quit a bit. If its a fish only tank I would recommend still having at least a little, because live rock will help you cycle your tank and it holds good bacteria in it. The same goes for live sand! If you have never set up a saltwater tank before then you must know that you need to cycle the tank before you even think about putting in expensive fish or corals. This is all just a basic explanation, and there is much more that you can learn. Hope this was helpful. If you have any questions you can PM me as well. Good Luck!

I'm currently working on a 135 gallon setup. I agree With 3 Frontosas in reference to the protien skimmer. Don't really need 1. For the live rock I would use at least 1lb per gallon because this serves and your bacterial filtration. As far as "live sand" don't waste your money. I'm setting mine up using sand blasting sand I purchased 100lbs for $7.00. Works the same. For the lights use regular fluorescent lights unless you already have something else. These are fine for a FOWLR tank. The t5 and MH are needed for reef tanks. Hope this helps. As 3Frontosas stated you will get numerous opinions and this is mine. I'm coming from the same place as you are. I'm trying to do this with as little cost as I can. I have received advice from numerous places. I have a friend who designs and installs reef tanks for a living. He was the person that suggested the sand blasting sand. He uses it on all the tanks that he has built. He currently has an inwall 730 gallon display 1200 gallon total system. I helped put this in and know for a fact he used sand blasting sand. You can check out his web site nea-reefkeeping.com. He has pictures posted of his personal tank that are awsome. His pics are listed under tgreen. Good luck with the tank. Post some pics when you get done.

first of all live rock and live sand provides biological filtration.
second a skimmer takes time to skim properly sometimes up to six week for the break in period, some people want instant gratification this hobby takes patience. I can't tell you how many times people have complained that their skimmer doesn't work then come to find out they have it either sitting in way too much water or not enough "in sump design"or they have an HOB skimmer and they have only had the skimmer running a couple of weeks.since we are talking about a non drilled 55 gallon standard tank here's where I would start if I were short on funds I would do at least 50/50 live sand/dead sand and the same with the rock to help seed your tank because if you use all dead sand and rock it will be months for your cycle to complete. remember everything dead does become live eventually so if you are short on funds a 50/50 will work and since we are talking about a FOWLR a HOB filter will be fine just remember to clean it often they trap nitrates where a HOB skimmer won't. you don't need any special lighting being a FOWLR what do you plan to use? you will also need flow 2x Koralia 3's are what I used on my 55 and were sufficient.
here is what a skimmer pulls out when they are used properly and rated to fit your size tank this is on my 180 with 27 fish 3 of which are large Tangs and hundreds of corals I don't use any other filtration except "Cheatomorpha" which can be used in a HOB skimmer with plenty of live rock and live sand and a diesel bag which I change every other day to polish my water. I know you plan on a Fowlr now but keep in mind they often evolve into a reef so plan accordingly.
good luck! here's my skimmer rated 400g it cost me 25 bucks.


cheato

thanks for all the advice so far!

the light I have on there now is a 48" fluorescent 40W bulb. this means so far I'm looking at needing live rock, live sand, salt, and power heads..... now just to accumulate the funds.

I would also talk to people who have tanks and go look at them and check it out. Salt water is a hobby that constantly requires money, and as Cindy said. They usually turn to reef tanks. One coral and its a reef. I would invest in a rodi unit if you arent going to run a skimmer. I dont know why you wouldnt. It will make life easier on you.

well, after all of the planning, I got about half as much $$$ as I thought I would, and well it wouldn't cover everything lol...... maybe I should wait on SW till I have a real job.

hello2196 wrote:

well, after all of the planning, I got about half as much $$$ as I thought I would, and well it wouldn't cover everything lol...... maybe I should wait on SW till I have a real job.

there's nothing wrong with collecting pieces of equipment as you go.
just take your time and check Craigslist for good deals.

^^^

If I had tons of money my tank would be stocked up but I don't so I buy things a little at a time. It's honestly been close to a year since I added anything new to my tank besides changing to the bigger tank and putting in the rocks & snails. But the rocks & snails were bought with the money from selling the smaller tank and I got a steal on the complete setup of the 55. Just take your time. It will come when the time is right.

you dont really need alot of equipment to start up.
you can literally start your tank with just live rock , live sand, and some powerheads for water movement. like mentioned before your rock and sand is another type of filtration. all you really need is water movement start. you can let your tank mature for a cpl weeks or months and in that time slowly add equipment,
like filters and /or skimmers. a fish only tank should for the most part be a lil cheaper than a reef because of the lighting. you dont need all that fancy mumbo jumbo high powered light for just a cpl fish.
just throw some rock and sand in the tank. get some salt water (either mixed yourself or from a LFS already made) throw in a cpl powerheads and wait about 1-2 weeks and add a fish. if you want.
overtime place filters or whatever you want for filtration.......
you can even use ild filters you have just lying around from a previous tank. just make sure you clean it out real good and boom....lol

things can be that easy if you buy your rock and sand already cured (live) but can be some what expensive. im sure though that if you look on CL you can find live rock for DIRT CHEAP. theirs always ppl breaking down tanks or moving and needing to sell stuff quick or somtimes if your lucky theyll just give stuff away! never hurts to do a quick search.

MY 55 gal REEFhardware list
1 emperor 400
2 power heads
coralife 65 skimmer (added bout a year and half later)
1 coralife 48 inch T-5x2bulb
1 coralife 24inch T-5x2 bulb

not sayin my set is the best but is probably one of the CHEAPEST


]

my 20L ( i have to get a recent pic of it PLZ REMIND ME!!!!)
equipment

20 or so Lbs or LR 15 or so Lbs or LS
K nano.
mini jet 404??
evill66's 12K par38 LED bulb with 60 degree optics
DONE
basically 2 powerheads, rock sandm and a light.
ill be adding a sump and skimmer here pretty soon!



i took the HOB refugium off. i didnt like having the tank scooted up that far away from the wall.
my 1yr old was always hiding behind the tank and it scared me lol

wish live rock and live sand didn't cost so dang much! I mean for a 55 gal I need like 50-100 lbs of live rock, right? that stuff is EXPENSIVE!

not really...thats just a general rule of thumb.. what you want is surface area...more than weight. i started my tank of with like 3 nice sized bout not too big pieces of regular limestone base rock roughly 25-30 lbs over a month time frame...and like a 2 lb piece of LR..i also got my rock over a period of about 8-12months too...i didnt go buy 60 LBS of LR at once...remember base rock will turn into LR after a few months as long as you have some LR to seed it with. and no 100 lbs youll have a tank full of rock in a 55, you still need to have spaces so water can move freely around your rock.

some LR is alot heavier then others..thats y i say go more with volume/surface are then weight. i have about 65 lbs of LR in my tank but i have a couple pieces that are like grapefruit sized that are like 5-7 lbs a piece.. i have one piece that about a foot long maybe 8 inches across( small watermelon)...that is also about 6 lbs...i got some LR from friends that had some to spare.. and dont forget the sand because it does alot of what the LR does so its more a combo of sand and rock.

you also have to remember you may not want that much rock because different fish need different spaces to swim. so the more rock you have the less area for fish you have. JMO.

08can-am wrote:

you also have to remember you may not want that much rock because different fish need different spaces to swim. so the more rock you have the less area for fish you have. JMO.

your right thanks for pointing that out too i forgot that part

lol, thanks guys, I talked to a guy at the LFS, he said I would need 3 bags of live sand, (which are $45 each!) and 2 bags of salt ($20 each) and some quickstart chemical tht'd run me $20-$40..... plus live rock and fish. makes me wonder................. did I have "SUCKER" written on my forehead?

i dont bout that.. prices vary depending on where ya are.. i know i have a 45-50 lbs of LS..i also kinda cheated with my water lol... not saying to do this but it worked for me..
I figured since the store sell ready made salt water...ill just buy the saltwater they already have mixed up...

You can get away with one bag of sand in your tank. ITs like 20 dollars at petsmart. Caribsea i think makes it. Then just look for a couple of pieces of live rock on craigslist from people who are taking their tanks down. I would seriously think about a rodi unit first before getting in to this. water changes and quality are very important esp if you arent going to run a skimmer. Bulkreefsupply has a nice one for i think 170 bucks. It will pay for its self fast.

JUST SEARCH CL!
youll find stuff you need at the moment for a fraction of the cost!

As far as the salt mix goes...here you can get the bag that does 55 gallon for $20. I don't see why you would need two bags. But you will need more to do water changes with once established.

I pay 35.00 for a 200 gallon box of IO.

You know, I have never looked into buying the bigger boxes of the IO. I really should and next time I get low I will do that. I have about three bags in storage right now though

there a thousand ways to get started(maybe not literally but you get the point) IMO SW tanks especially reefs are kind of like gardening...you grow them..takes time not everyone can go out buy everything all at once i know i cant/couldnt lol so i got what i could when i could. i still dont have a rodi system but im in an apartment and its just not a good set up for me to have one. id like to have one but for my 55.. i dont use that much water on it lol i could see if i had like a 110 or 150gal than yea youd use alot more water for top offs and changes etc..it took me like a yr and a half to finally get a skimmer. people have been maintaining spectacular SW/FOWLR/Reef tanks for a long time with way less equipment then we have available to us today. it all helps out but it all isnt a necessity to keep livestock. basics of a reef are light, water movement, and LR/LS for filtration..depending on what you keep will depend on what all you may need in the long run.

would this work?

I was thinking about buying 1 bag of salt, and one bag of live salt, go ahead and mix up the water then add the live sand. I would also go ahead and add the filters and skimmer i have and let them run and cycle....... while I wait for more money it would be cycling, once I get a bit more, I'd post an ad on CL saying that I would buy reasonably priced live rock..... once I get that settled..... wait more, for more funds, then fnally get a couple damsel fish to make sure it's safe, then move into other fish.