want to try saltwater and got ?

First topic message reminder :

got some questions... trying to work with a budget.. would a canister filter work for a saltwater tank, and if so what size would I need on a 25g (24x12x20) I need to turn the tank over 8-12 times right?

or would a sump be better?

protein skimmer would a hob one work, or should I get one that sits in the sump?

do I need a refugium?

lighting, what type of lighting would I need? would 2 t5 ho bulbs work or should I do 4 bulbs. I plan for some soft corals... or maybe just an anemone.

live sand - is just live sand right is any brand better then the other, and how many pounds do I need?

live rock, how many pounds do I need and what type is the best. what should I get? tonya,fiji,vanuatu,etc.

salt/water will more or likely just buy local and make a couple of trips.

power head, will more or likely get a hydor k-nano, or should I get a k 1 ?

fish --- I like the pajami cardinals, banggai cardinals, and royal dotty back. are this fish reef safe, is my tank big enough?

okay so I will get a hob skimmer, what do I do about a filter?

any one local to dfw, TX got what I need?

a filter sock 5 inch 100 micron. BUy three wash every 3 - 4 days. have the filter sock drain into your sump over your rock and pump it right back up. there are roughly 9-12 bucks a filter sock

so do a over flow and a sump? with a filter sock,

yes i would

So you recommend that even though the tank is only 25 gallons that it have a sump?

you expand your water capacity with salt the more water volume the better. A sump is always better. You can get a fluval system for 300 bucks or spend 150 and have something better

how many gph of over flow will I need? and what size skimmer will I need?

pump

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?rlz=1C1SNNT_enUS396US396&q=mag+drive&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=14144550733560546675&ei=595ATZiCI8vPgAev5Yj1Ag&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=image&resnum=4&ved=0CEQQ8gIwAw#

skimmer this one or look for tunze contact protien

http://www.aquacave.com/reef-octopus-bh-100ss-br-hang-on-back-protein-skimmer-1011.html

this is a great setup for your filter sock in sump simple easy and fill your sump with busted pieces of live rock and put your pump at the other end

http://www.aquacave.com/complete-4-sump-inlet-brassembly-filter-sock-holder-br-by-cpr-aquatics-1431.html

I think the sump/sock action is excessive for a 25. Certainly there's a significant addition of cost involved when really a skimmer is all you need. The largest antagonist of this is the fact that the micron socks need to be washed every third or fourth day. I understand the water volume argument, but a significant increase in volume can be had with a much easier to install hob refugium that won't leave you scratching your head to match drain to return. You also won't fear the dreaded power outage.

At 25 gallons your Gross water volume is only 20 gallons at best. Unless you're using a sizeable sump you're only increasing your volume at a net of 3-5 (20%) gallons of water. A small CPR aquafuge will increase your volume 3 gallons on its own and there's only one piece of equipment to buy. Ok 2 if you include the pump that comes with it.

Neither of these arguments make up for the amount of attention that will need to be paid to water chemistry. There's no avoiding that. Ideally, you're running a system large enough to warrant and benefit from the suggested equipment purchases, but at 30 gallons (assuming a best case 10 gallon addition from a sump) I personally don't see it. Spending your money on a quality hang on skimmer will do much more for you than the filter socks.

I also run a nano system, and I explored many options in filtration. At the end of the day I discarded the idea of a sump system. If you're in a situation you need to filter dense particulates out of the water, then run a hob filter for a few days until it clears. For everything else, there's your skimmer.

if it were me and all I had was a 25 gallon non reef ready tank I would set it up like this and avoid all the confusion,hassles and expense.
1. I would pickup a Remora pro HOB skimmer rated at least twice the size of my tank.
2. pickup a descent T5 light it doesn't need to be fancy or expensive to grow softies/zoa's.
3. 2x K2's./heater
4. 25-35 lbs of live rock.
5. 25 lbs of live sand.
and call it done.
yes extra water volume is always good but trying to go reef ready on a non reef ready tank can pose all kinds of problems the biggest being floods not to mention all the extra equipment you will need to buy.
lets say you used your 25g tank and a 20g sump by the time you add your sand and rock you water volume will be reduced anyway due to water displacement. I also agree you can never have too much filtration however the hob skimmer I mentioned will be more than adequate for that size tank plus your live rock and sand acts as a biological filter this way if in 6 months youre still loving the hobby get yourself a HOB fuge and add some cheato to help with nutrient export and add a little water volume. sadly I see too many new reefers make the mistake of trying to go all out on their 1st tank then they get upset and give up. you can have a nice little softy tank without breaking the bank.

cwhip wrote:

if it were me and all I had was a 25 gallon non reef ready tank I would set it up like this and avoid all the confusion,hassles and expense.
1. I would pickup a Remora pro HOB skimmer rated at least twice the size of my tank.
2. pickup a descent T5 light it doesn't need to be fancy or expensive to grow softies/zoa's.
3. 2x K2's./heater
4. 25-35 lbs of live rock.
5. 25 lbs of live sand.
and call it done.
yes extra water volume is always good but trying to go reef ready on a non reef ready tank can pose all kinds of problems the biggest being floods not to mention all the extra equipment you will need to buy.
lets say you used your 25g tank and a 20g sump by the time you add your sand and rock you water volume will be reduced anyway due to water displacement. I also agree you can never have too much filtration however the hob skimmer I mentioned will be more than adequate for that size tank plus your live rock and sand acts as a biological filter this way if in 6 months youre still loving the hobby get yourself a HOB fuge and add some cheato to help with nutrient export and add a little water volume. sadly I see too many new reefers make the mistake of trying to go all out on their 1st tank then they get upset and give up. you can have a nice little softy tank without breaking the bank.

okay so I need to get a skimmer and hob that hangs on the back.

for lighting I was going to use my retro fit kit I have that I was using on one of my tanks for a while. it's a hagen glo t50 2x24w/2x39w ballast with water proof end caps... and trade in the 3 foot reflectors I have for two foot reflectors, and get coral-life 10,000k and a antic are there better bulbs out there then coral life?

for live rock and sand. there is a guy name richard here that is local in frisco who said he bought to much live rock and would sell me fiji for $2.00 a pound , and a 40 pound bag of live sand for $30.00 that is a really good deal right.

hob skimmer my friend said he has one and would sell it to me for $25.00

hob refuge my friend built one for his 90g and said he would build me one for my 25g.

salt - will by from a saltwater store, and buy some r/o water. or should I buy some already made up saltwater from the store?

heater - I have a all glass 100w heater, and a misc named 100w.

also plan to buy a saltwater test kit, and a hydor meter.

anything else?

I would utilize everything you already have and keep it simple.
yes, get a hang on back skimmer rated twice your tank size. find out what your friends is rated for.
your light will work for softies/zoa's/leathers. and yes there are much better bulbs than coral life out there but also cost more.
the sand and rock is a great deal go for it! try to get 1 1/2lbs of live rock per gallon.
a hang on back fuge you can do that when ever you want you don't need it right away but if someones gonna build it for you then right on.
personally I would start out buying RO/DI and mixing my own water then later if you're loving keeping saltwater you can get your own RO/DI unit.
I started my 1st 29 gallon tank using distilled water and mixing it myself then as time went on and my tanks got bigger and bigger I invested in my own unit I also had good success keeping softies,leathers and zoa's with a cheap coral life PC fixture.
you will need a submersible heater designed for saltwater 75- 100 watt.
you will need a hydrometer or refractometer if you mix your own saltwater to test salinity hydrometers are cheap but less accurate than a refractometer.
you will find there are many many ways to setup a saltwater tank and different opinions are everywhere and the contradiction's can be overwhelming but its not rocket science you just need to do the K.I.S.S "KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID" and use this tank as a learning tool then you will learn what you can keep and how to keep up the chemistry and all the other factors involved...p.s. I'm not calling you stupid that's just what I call it..

I just have to say that my 29 gallon tank (not a reef ready setup) currently has no filtration and looks and tests better than it did while I was using my HOB filter. I haven't posted about it because I was waiting to see the results but about two weeks ago I removed the cartridges from my HOB filter. Sure I am still running it but it is basically just surface movement for the water at this point. There is some rubble in there but not enough to make a significant difference. I also have no skimmer, fuge or any of that stuff.

I have also learned that a limited light period far outweighs anything else in controlling the too much algae problem that I was having. Well maybe that & removing the cartridges from the filter as they were holding too much gunk to be useful.

During this experiment with light time & no cartridges in the filter I have actually missed a water change last weekend while getting the new puppy :) and my tank has not become overgrown with a thick green mat of algae as it would have in the past. Actually it looks almost like I just did a water change and suctioned out all that I could except my glass needs cleaned some and that isn't even what it normally is after only one week!

Just trying to say that a SW setup doesn't have to be all that fancy & expensive to be enjoyable & beautiful. Oh and as far as lighting goes ... well that depends on what you are stocking but since I am a softie person for now, I bought a coralife 2 bulb fixture with a 10K and an actinic bulb for $43.99 at my SW specialty LFS and love it. I have honestly not invested any money in my tank other than that new fixture since I set it up and my initial setup was $350 plus LR. Now if you want to get technical I do buy salt mix but that is maintenance. And livestock / corals are your own choice as to what you want to add.

I'm just saying there are lower tech ways of doing things and sure I do weekly water changes but I like messing with the tank so it doesn't bother me. And if I miss one then I work harder at it the next week.

Wow! I wrote a book!

cool glad to hear it worked! I was gonna pm you and ask how that HA was liking your tank now:)

cindy I know your not calling me stupid. I tell people to k.i.s.s. when it comes to planted tanks, they go out and get really big canister filters, dry ferts, 4 bulb t5 ho light fixtures, ada aqua soil. then they buy java fern, java moss, dwarf sag, etc and wonder why it dies..., and I have to go keep it simple stupid. you could of just have got a hob power filter, a 2 bulb t8 shop light fixture, regular gravel, and sea chem ferts and will be just fine....

they guy says he has plenty of live sand. he bought his wife a 650g and bought about 1000 pounds to much of rock, and about 200 pounds of to much live sand.

so 25x1.5=37.5 so one 40 pound back should do it.

then I'll get 25-35 pounds of live rock. do I want to go for small piece or big pieces? I want to build a good mass of live rock right?

oh and for lighting I want HIGH OUT PUT right... because I do have some 24 inch t5 fixtures. but they are just t5 normal out put. (14w x 2)
and I would have to switch the bulbs out too.

what do you think of the hagen glo bulbs because I did a new marine glo antic 24w at a saltwater store in the use section, and he goes they are new ever used I will let you have them for $10.00 each.

Most of my pieces of rock are 5-8#. I think I have one that is 12# and one that is 3# and then a bunch of rubble throughout the tank. But that is just my personal preference. I think it depends on the look that you are going for. My 29 gallon has about 45# of LR and 40# of aragonite. I still look at it sometimes and want more rock!! LOL

Oh wait, this was a question directed to Cindy! LOL I'm just on a roll this morning

wildbeanerz wrote:

Most of my pieces of rock are 5-8#. I think I have one that is 12# and one that is 3# and then a bunch of rubble throughout the tank. But that is just my personal preference. I think it depends on the look that you are going for. My 29 gallon has about 45# of LR and 40# of aragonite. I still look at it sometimes and want more rock!! LOL

Oh wait, this was a question directed to Cindy! LOL I'm just on a roll this morning

it was for cindy but you helped me out, I just want good answers. HA HA :)

now I hope I have enough in the bank or hope I can borrow some.

lol sounds good to me:) its all about what looks good to you.
well I have to go shovel snow:( we got a good foot last night I hate snow!!@!

snow! send me some snow me and my brother went snow boarding and ski one year and he was sweating with just snow pants, boots, and a short sleeve t-shirt on if that tells you any thing. I hate the super hot heat so does my brother...

I do have one more question... on the salt mix what brand should I get would instant ocean work, or should I go for kent, or does it even matter. cheap isn't always good right... I have a gift card for 21.80 to pet supplies and they sell saltwater mix so I was going to use the gift card. don't know the brands they have though, I think they just have instant ocean...

I use instant ocean and sometimes instant ocean reef crystals it depends on whats available when I need it. just dont ever switch fast between two different brands of salt. know what I mean?

well dude grab your shovel you can come help me dig out!!!!

I use Instant Ocean and because I have my softies I use the orange bag which has added calc & mag ( I hope that is right ) in it for them. I usually pay about $19.95 for a bag that does 50 or 55 gallon. So with weekly water changes it lasts me about 2-1/2 months.

Oh and we got snow too. But only about 4 inches. That is plenty with my block & a half long steep driveway though! Thank god hubby got a plow for his truck this year! That thing is a god send.

cool, he said 80 would cover sand and rock. now I will just need to get r/o water and saltwater mix... is instant ocean okay? so instant ocean is okay cool. thanks.

wow I buy the box that makes 200 gallons and it last s me through a whole 4 water changes
whoa no plow here just a shovel and the driveway from hell straight down with a curve in the middle...

plantedtankdude wrote:

cool, he said 80 would cover sand and rock. now I will just need to get r/o water and saltwater mix... is instant ocean okay? so instant ocean is okay cool. thanks.

dont forget the DI in your RO its important.
well back to shoveling:(