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| Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's | |
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CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/20/2009, 5:31 pm | |
| I currently have what I thought was a male EBJD. Until today when I decided to get it a mate. I went to the store and picked up one male and one female. I sexed by both the coloration on the gill plate and through venting. I get home and for laughs decided to vent my EBJD just to be sure. Turns out, HE is a SHE! Now I have a plain male and one of each type of female. Here's my question. Can you breed a female Blue Dempsey with a normal Jack Dempsey and get either blue gene or EBJD fry? | |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/20/2009, 6:03 pm | |
| I don't see why not. If the formula to make ebjd's or blue genes is the same as what your doing I don't see an issue with male vs female in the equation......1F+1m= fry is the same as 1M+1f= fry.....It doesn't matter whether its the male or the female that has the desired gene your still making the same fry...... I hope that makes sense |
| | | CajunGator Moderator
Posts : 5845 Location : New Iberia, Louisiana Favorite Fish: : Cichlids, WC Syn Petricola, Shellies, Festae, Mbu Puffers, Koi Angels, ABN, Piranha, Mermaids
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/20/2009, 7:31 pm | |
| Snyder, please do a little more research on your EBJD breeding program. There are many excellent resources on the web as the "World of Electric Blue Dempseys" http://www.geocities.com/jackarthur46/electric_blue.html Excerpt from the article: - Quote :
- The principle reason that Electric Blue Dempseys are not widely available on the market, and that prices remain high for the species ($30-$60), is due to the fact that breeding Jack Dempseys to achieve Blue Dempseys is a tricky proposition. Two blues bred together will not produce a full blue offspring. To achieve full blue offspring, you must first start with a blue male and breed him with a regular color female Jack Dempsey. The offspring that this pair creates will appear as regular Jack Dempseys, but the difference is that they will carry the blue gene. This group of fish must now be grown out to the size where a female can be determined and selected and bred back to the original blue male. The offspring of this pairing will produce an indeterminant number of true blue variant fish. Obviously a project like this is not for the faint of heart and will require enormous growout type of facilities.
There are many excellent articles on the EBJD with plenty of documented resources that you should follow instead of a suggestion from the above: - Quote :
- don't see an issue with male vs female in the equation......1F+1m= fry is the same as 1M+1f= fry.....It doesn't matter whether its the male or the female that has the desired gene your still making the same fry...... I hope that makes sense
Good Luck on your breeding program. Hope to buy some from you one day soon. | |
| | | CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/20/2009, 8:37 pm | |
| I have read that article and many others just like it. I bought this EBJD as a display fish. I hadn't originally intended to breed her. I then decided this week that I would try my hand and see if I could get some EBJD fry out of my beautiful specimen. Little did I know, the male I thought I had was female. I did all my reading for a few days and brought home a male and a female just to be on the safe side. I'm glad I did because when I pulled my EBJD out of the tank for the first time in 4 months and rolled her on her back, I found, to my surprise, female parts. That's why I posted that question. If it won't work, I will have to come up with another game plan. A lot of sites have copied this original scenario that you posted, but I haven't heard where anyone has tried what I have. I assume that a punnet square equation would hold true, and if that were the case, I would still have the right formula, just reversed. If that doesn't hold true for this "Blue Gene", then I'm up the creek and need a back-up plan. | |
| | | CajunGator Moderator
Posts : 5845 Location : New Iberia, Louisiana Favorite Fish: : Cichlids, WC Syn Petricola, Shellies, Festae, Mbu Puffers, Koi Angels, ABN, Piranha, Mermaids
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/20/2009, 8:53 pm | |
| you can still try with your plan, what do you have to lose but time. you may still get lucky. email so of the guys on that web site and ask your question. I really think you will get an answer. good luck. | |
| | | CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 6:50 am | |
| I'll see what they say. The only thing I do have to lose is that now I have a very beautiful normal female specimen. But I'm sure I can find one should this not work. Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know what I find! | |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 7:39 am | |
| Well Cajun you seem to know what your talking about! I was just writing what I remembered from a few genetics classes I had. Best case scenario you get what you want from the fry worst case scenario you have successfully bred fish. Keep us posted on your findings I am quite curious on this. |
| | | JACK D Chief Wrnt. Off. 5
Posts : 545 Location : oHIo Favorite Fish: : My fish, your fish, red fish, blue fish...
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 8:31 am | |
| Succesfuly bred fish are fun!!! It cant hurt to try for sure. More fish is always good, right... | |
| | | CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 8:35 am | |
| As long as you have tank space for the little ones! lol I've done a few more hours of reading today. I'll let you know what I conclude and then what happens. | |
| | | JACK D Chief Wrnt. Off. 5
Posts : 545 Location : oHIo Favorite Fish: : My fish, your fish, red fish, blue fish...
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 8:44 am | |
| Its a good reason to get more tanks!!! I use it all the time... | |
| | | CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 8:53 am | |
| This is true. I was already hitting my wife up for a tank for Christmas last night and they had only been in the tank for a few hours! lol | |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 8:57 am | |
| If you think you can convince your wife to let you have more tanks. Put all of your extra decor into your running tanks. That way the extra decor already has good stuff growing on it and that will help shorten cycling. Also stuff some extra media into your running filters so you have well seeded media to use. Good luck |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 8:58 am | |
| a 55g will be great for what your trying to do. It will be plenty of space to grow them and you can always divide it up. |
| | | CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 9:02 am | |
| Way ahead of you. I have filter floss in bags in one of the current 55's that I have. I also have both 55's dual filtered so I can quickly switch one if need be. I also have plenty of decor from established tanks. But we are getting the cart ahead of the horse. I need to get some fry! lol | |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 9:07 am | |
| Ok cool. So you would only have daily water changes to do and you would be fine adding any fry right away. Just keep an eye on levels and it will do fine. Find some pics of JD fry to show your wife that may help your cause You can find full 55g setups for $50-$75 on CL |
| | | CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 9:10 am | |
| Yeah. That's where I got my last one. It was a full set-up with a stand for $125. | |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/21/2009, 9:23 am | |
| There are better deals to be found if you check daily. I got my 90g with stand for $75 |
| | | CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/25/2009, 7:02 pm | |
| My EBJD just laid eggs! The female has laid the eggs, but I never saw the male fertilize the eggs. Should I be worried or do you think he will fertilize afterward or maybe he already has. Help! | |
| | | JACK D Chief Wrnt. Off. 5
Posts : 545 Location : oHIo Favorite Fish: : My fish, your fish, red fish, blue fish...
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/25/2009, 7:07 pm | |
| Hope for the best!!! Chances are good he at least tried... | |
| | | CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/25/2009, 7:35 pm | |
| I'll see what happens. Any other comments would be appreciated. I need all the help I can get! | |
| | | CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/27/2009, 9:40 am | |
| Will the fry eat Hikari First Bites using a baster to shoot some in? | |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/27/2009, 12:58 pm | |
| They don't need to eat until the egg sack is gone. You could try that. Some cichlid parents will chew up flake and spit it out for the fry to eat. |
| | | CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/28/2009, 3:47 pm | |
| All the eggs have fungus on them. They were not fertilized. Next time... When can I remove the eggs? Now? | |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/28/2009, 4:12 pm | |
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| | | CSnyder00 Moderator
Posts : 1648 Location : Pittsburgh, PA Favorite Fish: : Luwino Reef Zebra Chilumba, Ocellatus, Any bright-colored freshwater cichlid
| Subject: Re: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's 10/28/2009, 4:12 pm | |
| I already did. I figured that was best for her and the tank. | |
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