Tank cycling.....help!

a friend of mine is having problems getting her tank to cycle. if anyone could help with suggestions, we would greatly appreciate it. she has had her 10 gal tank set up since Jan 15th and has followed everything she has read but it just wont cycle for her. she started out with 1 female betta and 2 platys. Since the tank stalled in the middle of cycling, after 6 weeks, she added 2 platys and 3 dalmation mollys. She has lost 2 mollys but none of the others. She knows she overstocked but still cannot get it to finish cycling.

Take over your test kit...We need to know where it stalled!.. Ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrates. Plants? Substrate? Water Changes? Or.. have her take a water sample back to the shop that sold her the fish. They'll try to tell ya ammonia is what killed the fish but ask for a full range test.. and don't let them use a Multi-test strip. If they resist, find a local fish shop or invest the 25.00 in your own kit. BIll

ammonia is off the charts, so we know that is what killed th mollys. she has been using ammonia block and doing 30% water changes but has bumped that up to 50% since it is so high. the rest are 0. she has plastic plants with gravel. she uses liquid test for the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. she isn't sure what the ph is.

you got pm...

try yo use some stability by seachem it will jump start the bacteria

You don't happen to have an established tank you can take your filter media out of do ya?.... Some Prime would help considerably.. good luck getting it under control!~... Some live plants would suck up a ton of ammonia.. I've not encountered levels that high!

The only things that stand out from what you have said is the ammo lock. Now I don't know for sure but if this product locks up ammonia completely it would starve the bacteria that is trying to use it.

So you will still read high ammonia but it is not being consumed by the bacteria and thus never cycles. Then when the ammo lock wears off the ammonia spikes again and kills the fish. Like I said before not familiar with that product but it is something to look into.

Like bill said "I" would use prime for ammonia control (it converts to ammonium) leaving it available for the bacteria to use but is less harmful to fish. I use it all the time to cycle fresh tanks.

Another thing I don't think anyone asked way when she added the water/did partial water changes did you use a water conditioner prior to adding the new water to treat for chlorine?
Also you said her cycle stalled? how long did she wait and what was the indications that it stalled? Nitrite never developed? Ammonia never went away? just curious how that conclusion was made.

The established filter idea would be a great way to get things going. If you are using HOB filters and could spare one established pad (as long as the other is also good) it would help to kick start things.

If you don't... then
I'll also second what discuskent said. I have used stability with great success. In my use it did not finish the cycle BUT it completely established the ammonia fixing bacteria and all that was left was a fairly short cycle of nitrite.

Another alternative to the filter media is to scoop up a couple of handfuls of YOUR substrate, keeping it moist and dump it into her tank. If she's concerned about the color or texture change, put it in a pantyhose or socket.... your soil will give it a bacteria jump start too!..

Yup that is another great point Bill. That being said if you use a mesh bag or pantyhose method I would throw it in the HOB filter. The more contact the established bacteria has with the new filter media the better. An added bonus of this is the increased oxygen contact in the filter should only intensify what is already established.

Same thing I do when establishing new canister filters. Just take old out and put it on the top basket of the new ones. Let the water flow through each basket starting at the established one. My thinking is that if any bacteria is going to be transferred this would only aid in it.

I don't think anything could be added to that last post!.. So why am I posting?... beats me!... PM coming STM.

http://www.fritzpet.com/turbo-start-700/

This stuff works like a dream. I use it to cycle new tank all the time.

Cichlid Lover wrote:

http://www.fritzpet.com/turbo-start-700/

This stuff works like a dream. I use it to cycle new tank all the time.

I really want to give this a try one time but I just can't go with the cost. Not for one tank haha. I guess if I needed it right away I could but yeah haha. On a huge plus note my LFS told me that when I am ready to start my sump up they will give me cycled bio balls!

Hmmm ... I've never used fish to cycle a tank, sorry I can't help! Good luck and I hope you get it figured out!

discuskent wrote:

try yo use some stability by seachem it will jump start the bacteria

She is currently using this product. She started using it last wednesday and makes sure she adds the amount for her size tank everyday. We had gone to the lfs and saw it so she thought she would try it to see if it would help get her tank stable. She just told me this morning that something is happening because the water is a little cloudy now and the mollys that had the shimmys are doing much better today. Does it sound like its starting to work? She tried the substrate from a cycled tank but it didn't seem to help. Don't know if her ammonia is so high that it just didn't work or what happened there.

"substrate from a cycled tank " thats likely what caused the ammonia in the 1st place.

her ammonia was really high before we tried the substrate.

hi nat here are some ? do you have a aquarium if so can you take your filter pad out of yours and put it in theres that should cycle it alot quicker

unfortunately i don't. i just had to change mine out from a charcoal filter to a sponge so i'm having to reestablish my filter. otherwise i would gladly give it to her.

If she is already using Stability then test the water. It only took 3-4 days for almost all the ammonia to be converted. Then the bacteria seemed to be caught up but of course the Nitrite spike spike is next. That took about another week and with 10-15% water changes daily the fish held up just fine.

Just test her water and see where she is at in the cycle (low ammonia already/high nitrites(going up, steady, down) ect.

If the ammonia was very high to start it can be hard for the bacteria to establish. You can just do water changes to get the ammonia down to around 4ppm or lower. From what I have seen ther is not a huge amount of time spent cycling between the two high and low levels to start. With a fish cycle I always do small water changes to keep things under control until everything get going.

thanks everyone for the great advice. i have given her all this information. she is going to keep using the stability and we are going to keep our fingers crossed that it starts working soon.

I think the cloudiness is a good sign that the bacteria are colonizing and working in the cycle.

Most of the time cloudy water is either bacteria or algae. This is why I was suggesting that actually water parameters be taken so we could know for the most part where in the cycle the tank was.

Some questions that would really help pinpoint the problem that never received an answer from earlier in the post.

Water/changes:
What are the current water parameters? (PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate--if test kits are available)
Are any water changes being done during the cycle, if yes how much?

Is something to remove chlorine being added to new water?

Has the tap water been tested for ammonia? (many already have 1-2ppm present)

Chemicals:
Need to find out if the use of ammo lock makes ammonia unavailable for bacteria, if yes you need to use something else.

Stability dose sounds good but has the tank been monitored for progress to see if it is working (ammonia spike goes down, nitrite spike goes up)

Tank/Filter:
Was the tank or filtered cleaned with any type of chemicals prior to use? (soap, bleach ect)

What kind of filter and what bio media?

What is the temperature in the tank?

When the first cycle stalled, how was this conclusion reached?

I know it seems like lots of information to ask for but if you notice this is all the stuff people (be it one at a time or all together) always ask for. With this amount of info it makes it much easier to extrapolate what it could be if anything at all.

good call!

strikingthematch wrote:

Most of the time cloudy water is either bacteria or algae. This is why I was suggesting that actually water parameters be taken so we could know for the most part where in the cycle the tank was.

Some questions that would really help pinpoint the problem that never received an answer from earlier in the post.

Water/changes:
What are the current water parameters? (PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate--if test kits are available)
Are any water changes being done during the cycle, if yes how much?

Is something to remove chlorine being added to new water?

Has the tap water been tested for ammonia? (many already have 1-2ppm present)

Chemicals:
Need to find out if the use of ammo lock makes ammonia unavailable for bacteria, if yes you need to use something else.

Stability dose sounds good but has the tank been monitored for progress to see if it is working (ammonia spike goes down, nitrite spike goes up)

Tank/Filter:
Was the tank or filtered cleaned with any type of chemicals prior to use? (soap, bleach ect)

What kind of filter and what bio media?

What is the temperature in the tank?

When the first cycle stalled, how was this conclusion reached?

I know it seems like lots of information to ask for but if you notice this is all the stuff people (be it one at a time or all together) always ask for. With this amount of info it makes it much easier to extrapolate what it could be if anything at all.

Here are some answers to your questions:

ph - she doesn't have the test for that yet so isn't sure
nitrite and nitrate - are 0
yes she is doing 25-30% water changes every other day since the ammonia is so high. she said that when she did the test for this it was turning blue, which isn't even on the chart.

she uses tetra aquasafe to dechlorinate

she had not tested the tapwater for ammonia. i suggested this to her yesterday and she said that was her next step.

this is what the website says about ammo lock:
Ammo-Lock®

Water Conditioners-
Works instantly, in both fresh and saltwater, to detoxify ammonia and remove chlorine and chloramines. Locks up ammonia in a non-toxic form until it can be broken down by the tank's natural biological filter. Eliminates fish stress and promotes healthy gill function

she is checking her perameters every other night and so far nothing seems to be changing until last night when she noticed it was a little cloudy. she is going to check them again tonight.

there have not been any chemicals used on the filter or tank. all was brand new when she set it up.

she has a whisper 10i and a whisper 20i with charcoal filters. she tried the bio-spira filter but it did nothing to bring down the ammonia so she got rid of it.

she has a pre-set heater for tropicals and it keeps the temp between 76-78 and it's not adjustable

she had been reading on how to get it to finish cycling and found an article that said something about not reading anything but ammonia after so long and that it was probably stalled. she has had it set up since 1/15/11 and is still getting nothing but ammonia readings.

hope i got all the answers you were looking for.

I dunno what popular opinion is, but I've never cycled with any sort of chemicals or additives just dechlorinator and fish. I've also done fishless with several ammonia sources. It just takes time.