My Caridina cf. Propinqua Project

First topic message reminder :

Zoea from Caridina cf. Propinqua (a.k.a Sunkist Orange Shrimp)

They will be washed out to sea today (moved to their salt tank).

I tried to get some shots last night of them and this is about the best I could get at the moment. They are so small. I'll try to snap some more before moving out to sea. You can just make them out as they almost look like arrows.



I'm going to estimate around 40 or so zoea in there at the moment. This morning, most of them where in the same corner as pictured above.

Time's running out on the remaining ones in the tank. Hopefully I will be able to find alot more today and get them moved over so they at least will have a fighting chance of survival.

Found a berried Amano today, so Phase II of this project is officially underway.

I put up a shot in the "Who Likes Berries" thread.

Getting ready to isolate one Amano female today. Have everything prepped and ready to go. Going to do something just a little different during this round. On another note, found (2) Amano's berried up. They are nearly two weeks apart so this could be a little interesting. I'll have to go and get a few more small tanks.

One Propinqua with a very nice saddle. Here of late, they have been dropping the eggs after a week which is not good. Water quality is good so there may be some other underlying feature that I haven't discovered just yet. So we'll see.

Still nothing as yet on the Red Nose. Actually hard to tell if there is a female in this bunch to be honest with you.

I'll post back once the Amano's is isolated and settled in.

Here's some shots from today's progress.

This is the first expecting mom:


Close up of the developing eggs. As you can see, they will hatch any day now.


Now, here is a very quick shot of the breeding setup.


I've got more work to do on this since I am restructuring everything. Previous attempts have had the light on the side of the tanks. I will be building a frame in which the light will hang directly over top. I will have to be mindful of the temps as warm weather is approaching but think it will work out fine.

Another change is going to be in the air circulation. Past attempts had one air tube directly in the center. The new format will have two tubes cross corner from each other. This will be an added benefit for better circulation and water movement. When the frame is bent, the tubes will hang directly from the top of the frame to be able to adjust the flow better. I feel this will be a much system.

With more shrimp being added, I will have to make the frame capable of handling at least (4) tanks.

Once the larvae have hatched out, I will immediately begin flushing them downstream. This test group will be handled in both sea and brack water. Phyto will be introduced during this time as well to get it seeded and the larvae can start looking for food when they are ready.

Stay tuned for more....

Very cool, looks as if your efforts will pay off!

Thanks Dan. This is the easy part though. Once they hatch, the real test will begin.

Morning check and all is still holding out well. No hatching to report. Temp stayed steady at 72 throughout the night. A very good sign. I expect it to bump up to around 78 during the day with the light on. This of course will change when the light stays running full time after the eggs hatch. The double air line is doing a nice job at keep a constant circulation in the tank. Now granted, there are no larvae in here yet, but judging by the particles in the water, it will work out well.

Tank temp maintained at 72 all day today. I might have the light in just the right spot it appears. Still debating to lower it a little more just to try and get that extra little bump in temp for the larvae. Right now though, I'll leave it where it sits.

Closer and closer we get:


Water change in the holding tank and gave her one algae flake to snarf on. I think she appreciated that. ;o)

Temp in the tank was at 75 today. Other than a permanent frame, I will say the height of the light is spot on.....for now.

And we have a hatching!

Funny story, my daughter was downstairs with me checking on the tanks. She saw the Amano's in their home tank and asked how many were in there as she thought I only had (2). Told her there were (6) in the tank; (3) male and (3) females. Then she saw the berried females and I told her the other one is in the rearing tank waiting. She went to look at it and then said they all hatched out that there were babies everywhere. I went over to look and sure enough, her under carriage was empty and tons of larvae all over the place.

This kind of dispells one item with the Amano's in regards to hatching at night. This morning when I turned the light on, she was still holding. So sometime between 0600hrs and now, they hatched under the lights.

Using a small flashlight for an added light source, I placed it in the opposite corner from where mom was. I then gently lowered a small tupperware bowl in and scooped out mom. Wound up getting a few larvae too but nothing a dosing dropper couldn't take care of. I then placed the female back into the home tank and she was happy. :)

Stay tuned for more....

Here are some notes on this hatching:
- Approximately 18 days after noticing the berried female
- Female was in the rearing tank for (3) days prior to hatching
- Rearing tank temp: 74 degrees
- Day 1 of first brood: 28-Apr-2011

Here are some quick shots. Lighting is pretty bright so I adjusted them the best I could for viewing. Was hard to get good focus due to the lighting and subject size of course.

These three photos show the unhatched developed larvae. Taking a closer look, you can see a few that are not developed and will have to eventually be removed.






And a short video clip:
Amano Shrimp Hatching on 28-Apr-2011

Judging by what I see, there will be more hatching (hopefully) throughout the rest of the day. I'm strictly guessing at this but my logic stems from seeing the developed larvae as depicted in the pics. Mama Amano dropped every egg. It's wasn't like other dwarf varieties where the female carries all the eggs until they all hatch.

Hopefully there is enough current going in there to keep them viable. So far it seems to be just enough. It is keeping the suspended in the current and not bouncing off the wall or such.

My initial plan was to start sending them downstream as soon as they hatched. Seeing that there are still quite a few left to hatch, I will wait about (2) days to begin their journey to the sea.

Plenty of Phyto and Golden Pearls at the ready. I'm also looking at using APR (Artificial Plankton Rotifers) as well.

Didn't notice any new hatchings. Not sure if they were any or not but it didn't seem like anything changed with the unhatched ones. Makes me wonder if those will hatch out.

Morning check looked well. Tons of zoea floating about. Still many, many eggs on the bottom. I'm starting to think these may not actually hatch. I will work on seperating them today and placing them in a seperate container just in case. Once all the eggs have been removed, the zoea will begin their journey downstream.

Since I have two more females with eggs and they are close together by date, I am only going to work at full sea salinity with this first Amano group.

Water change in the zoea tank today. That proved to be a real challenge but I got through it. I had to use a brine shrimp net and some small tubing. Wound up dipping the net too far and got some zoea. Hopefully I was able to recover all of them. It was < 10 so not a big impact.

The zoea are now transitioning to full salt water. My plan is a slow introduction even though studies say it is not neccessary. This is the first round with Amano's so I'm going to start at ground zero. I'm dripping in 2x35ppm at a rate of (1) drop every 2 seconds. The water change took the level to (4) cups. I'll add (4) cups of the 2x and then 2 additional cups of phyto mix at full sea water. I wanted to start introducing the phyto at the same time as the salt but not sure if that would cause initial salinity level problems. In the end, it will all be 35ppm anyway, just don't want to go any higher in the mean time. Maybe a salt water expert can assist with that.

Also, back in Propinqua world, we now have another berried female there. Definately will need a couple extra small tanks to work with being that the ladies are spaced out time wise.

I think I may have waited too long to introduce them to salt water and subsequently .. feeding. Very brief check this morning, I didn't see very many zoea floating about. I did find a few hanging on the walls and a few in the water column. Again, this was just a brief check but definately should have seen a lot more.

I never did get the tank up to full sea water last night. The drip was started too late in the evening and I eventually shut it off when it was time to retire for the eve. The plan is to start it back this afternoon when I return. But may be too late.

In either event, this was a good lesson learned on the Amano's. Unlike the Propinqua, all the eggs did not hatch out. This is where I lost a day as I waited for them to. Then of course the human factor comes in as I waited so long to make the initial move to salt. Judging by the amount of zoea I saw between yesterday and this morning, I would say the move to salt and feeding of phyto really should take place immediately after hatching with no waiting period. A very most, no more than (2) days after hatching. So if the next females have the same pattern, the unhatched eggs will be removed the same day and the transfer to salt will begin.

By my calculations, the next two females should be ready in about a week. I will examine them today just to be on the safe side and may even isolate them today depending on what I find.

Still have quite a few zoea in the tank so I guess the loss isn't too bad. Definately notice the difference in numbers though. I would give a rough guesstimate at < 100 now.

I have the salt drip going again. Actually it's been going for a couple hours now. I'm also in the process of introducing the phyto. I'm doing a coctail of Nannochloropiss and Tetraselmis. If the zoea survive these next few days, I will introduce a very small amount of Golden Pearls.

Temps have been holding steady in the tank at 72.

Getting ready to go check on the other two Amano ladies. I saw the one Propinqua and she is fine and has a nice grouping of eggs in her carriage.

Definately have > 100 zoea in the tank. Since the tank is nice and green with the phyto, it is very hard to see much in there. I did spot a few on the sides but that was pretty much it. So....I did the light test.

I turned off the over head light on the tank and used a small mag flash light. As soon as I turned it on and shined it into the tank, it was like static cling! lol Within a second, the side of the tank was litterally covered with zoea. Was pretty hilarious actually. But is was a good way to guestimate how many survivors are in there. I'm half tempted to do that once a day as it pretty much guarantees they will be active as they are drawn to the light.

Approaching the one week mark.

Still progessing well. We have reached the (1) week mark. Only way to check on the zoea pretty much is by using the light test. I can occassionally see a few in the current as they flow past the front of the glass. But once I turn off the main light and use a flashlight, they all come a runnin.

Temp in the tank is down to 66. We have had the heat off in the house for a while after a nice warm spell. It has dropped into the mid 40s at night again but we haven't turned it back on. So far, it doesn't look like it has had a major impact on the zoea. If anything, I would probably anticipate a longer period to morph due to the colder temps but I'm not going to try and adjust it.

I can see some phyto clumps forming on the bottom of the tank even with the cross currents established. I will use a dropper and dispurse them. Also, a very small amount of Golden Pearls will be added today. I could just leave it with phyto as their food source but definately want to ensure that they have a ton of nutritious foods available. Have to be carefull as to not affect water quality which is why only a small pinch will be used.

Day 9 and I'm officially calling this round of testing. No signs of zoea life today. I'll break down the tanks, get them cleaned up and move the other two females in for round 2. This round will be busy as I have (2) Amano's and (1) Propinqua expecting around the same time frame.

I'll get a salinity reading of the tank when I break it down to see where the mark was. I suspect however, the failure was a two part deal; late acclimation to salt water and low temps.

I'll try and focus on the setup a little more so I can stabilize the temps where I want them.

Well the Propinqua and one of the Amano dropped their eggs earlier than expected and lost both those batches.

I do have another Amano due to drop any day now and she has been moved into isolation. I checked on her this morning and all is well. The poo machine really cranked up last night so I will have to do a small water change in her tank. This time, once the hatching occurs, any that are unhatched will be removed same day and the journey downstream will begin shortly after. I'll have to tweak the phyto mix to achieve the right salinity prior to feeding.

With this female, I'm going to be aiming for a mid brackish number around 1.020. I know I didn't get a good test in at the full sea level due to time and temp, but will revisit that on another round. Taking the human error out of that equation, I believe I would have gotten better results.

I have recently acquired a refractometer to better aid me in my salinity levels.

The first Amano female already has eggs again and has been this way for about a week now. As much as I don't want to, I'm considering the moving the females earlier. Especially the Propinqua's as they are seeming to carry a shorter period of time than when this project first started. Just don't like the idea of them in that small tank for too long.

In other news:

- found (2) Red Nose saddled yesterday. Not sure how many are left from the original bunch but hopefully there is at least one male in there. ;)
- Caridina serratirostris finally showed up on an exporter list. I'm in the works of getting my first batch in.

Water change for the expecting mom today. Interesting find. While drawing out the water, I found a couple zoea in the water. With that discovery, I would have to think that a full hatching is very soon to take place.

I'll be moving another female into isolation in the next couple of days.

And on another good note, I just learned that the C. serratirostris will be shipping on Wednesday.

Morning check and mama still holding the eggs. I find this rather interesting since I did find a couple of hatched zoea just the other day. Very interesting. She's holding for a very long time.

I think we have an over protecting mom suffering from serparation anxiety. :) She's still holding. Second female is ready to move into isolation. Will try and get that done this evening.

Was notified that the Ninja's shipped yesterday. Should be here tomorrow. Think I'm going to switch things up again. Turns out all my Red Nose are females. Rather odd because it's usually the other way around. So I will keep them in the Propinqua at this time until I can get another grouping in. Need to restock the Prop's too. So now the Ninja's will go in with the O. Vittatus. The Propinqua and Red Nose will remain with the O. Cocama.

Po and friends arrived just fine. (Kung Fu Panda reference in case anyone missed it) ;) Such a coincidence that the Ninja shrimp arrive the same time that the movie Kung Fu Panda 2 comes out eh?

Slowly acclimating into their new tank. Took a few pics of them in the bowl that don't do them justice but it's understandable at the moment. There are (5) that are carrying eggs as well. This definately jump starts this phase of the project. Not knowing how long they have been berried, I will give them a couple of days to settle in and then isolate them. Isolating them so early might be a bit tricky with all the travels they just went through.

A quick note, the egg size appears to be consistant with that of the Propinqua, so I will initially guestimate about two weeks for hatching. The shrimpies themselves are small. Just under an inch.

do you keep no larvarie stage species shrimp ?
let me know please

proyect01 wrote:

do you keep no larvarie stage species shrimp ?
let me know please

I keep a few at the moment:

Blue Pearls, CBS, CRS, Tigers, RCS, Yellow

As for what I currently have available for sale, they are Blue Pearls and Tigers. I'm refreshing the gene pool in the others.

cool !!!
whats the prices for each species ?
I want add the shrimp to my africans setup for a snack source

These are ornamental shrimps....would be a pretty expensive snack. ;o)