Hole in the Head

I have a breeding pair of Jack Dempseys. The male is easily pushing 11''.

when I got him, he was being housed in a 100 gallon stock tank that was a turtle tank. He was in there for 2-3 months.

He now has what seems to be HITH.

I have NEVER had to deal with this, so I don't really know what to do.. I was reading that it's a parasite, but then I read that it's a nutrient deficiency of Thiamine.. or something like that, and that they can get it from eating Rosey Reds.

Roseys are the ONLY thing that I can get this guy to eat! Have I been killing him by allowing him to eat feeders?

If I don't feed him for a few days, and make him really hungry, do you think he would eat regular cichlid food? Like Sinking Pellets, or would floating be better?

What all can I try to feed him?

And what do I do to get his HITH to go away?

HELP!

Good luck! I spent allot of money try'n to save an old Oscar of mine with the same problem. He would only eat small feeders also. This old retired marine biologist (mom & pop pet shop) told me i was wasting my time saving this guy. If you figure out how to do it let us know. GOOD LUCK.

I've been known to make up DIY alternatives... so I guess I'm going to spend a loooong time researching.

But I will def let everyone know.

You need to get Metronidazole
It will work
here what got off the www
Since the disease is internal it is necessary to medicate internally. The easiest way to do this is to mix 1% metronidazole in fish food (25g food for one 250mg metronidazole) and feed it to the fish. Feeding sparsely before feeding the medicated food can help guarantee that the fish eats the medicated food. It is also recommended to medicate the water as well by adding 12 mg metronidazole per litre aquarium water to make the treatment more effective. Repeat the water treatment every other day until you have treated the water three times.

Txredneck wrote:

You need to get Metronidazole
It will work

I seen that it works, but because I can only feed Roseys, it will keep coming back.

If you don't feed him for about a week and then put some large sinking pellets in I bet he eats.

KMX wrote:

If you don't feed him for about a week and then put some large sinking pellets in I bet he eats.

I will try this... again... I've done this before, and he didn't take the bait. So hopefully this will work.

I might try rolling the pellets in tuna fish. It's worked with my koi when they needed medicated foods.

try fresh beef heart chunks

Hikhari make a massivore delight pellet that my fish go bonkers over. Its big sell point is its good for big fish that wont eat processed foods. I broke it up for my smaller fish and they like it too so if your JD doesn't recover its not food wasted.

Fern wrote:

Hikhari make a massivore delight pellet that my fish go bonkers over. Its big sell point is its good for big fish that wont eat processed foods. I broke it up for my smaller fish and they like it too so if your JD doesn't recover its not food wasted.

that's what I am trying to get them to eat. ALL my other fish love it.

Feed him dead feeders for a few days then the pellets with goo wiped all over them from dead feeders.

Fern wrote:

Feed him dead feeders for a few days then the pellets with goo wiped all over them from dead feeders.

Lol. He won't eat the dead ones. The pleco does though.

He has lately just been biting their tails off and that's it. The female is showing her breeding stripes again, so they might stop eating anything at all again.

What about some frozen food? Maybe try some bloodworms. My Jacks go crazy for them.

CSnyder00 wrote:

What about some frozen food? Maybe try some bloodworms. My Jacks go crazy for them.

I'll have to try that. Thanks!

If you can get them to eat the bloodworms, you can work them on to dry foods. I am still trying to get my EBJD to eat dry. My normal caught on after a while, but she is more stubborn. They both LOVE bloodworms.

The meds that were suggested work. Feeding feeder fish is the WORST thing you can feed. If you scope anyones feeder fish you will find EVERYTHING that is wrong in the industry.

fishman13218 wrote:

The meds that were suggested work. Feeding feeder fish is the WORST thing you can feed. If you scope anyones feeder fish you will find EVERYTHING that is wrong in the industry.

All of my feeders are QTed before being placed in the tank. And in the wild they eat other fish, so I don't understand why everyone says they are bad.

Nothing is introduced into the Jacks tank without Scope and QT.

That's actually for all my tanks.

QT doesn't stop the paristes and diseases they care. Its how the fish are raises and how they are handled. Quanity over quality.

fishman13218 wrote:

QT doesn't stop the paristes and diseases they care. Its how the fish are raises and how they are handled. Quanity over quality.

I've worked with Koi and parasites enough to know that with my process everything is eliminated.

And that's not the reason you don't use feeders.

They get frequent water changes every other day of 15%, and I feed Hikari Massivore Delight, and OSI Cichlid pellets. Occasional Shrimp Pellets from Aquarian, and OSI Spirulina Tabs for the pleco. He is housed with his mate, and a common pleco. There are no internal parasites, external parasite, or anything like that on the feeders or on the Tank inhabitants. All are scraped and scoped once a week to ensure they are healthy. I bought the scope for my Koi, but I found out it benefits all fish. The only thing that I can think is that it could be because they won't eat anything but the feeders, or it was brought on from being moved from a filthy tank to a clean one.

1) Thiaminase
Thiaminase destroys Thiamine (Vitamin B1). Goldfish & Rosie Reds (and most cyprinidae) contain a very high level of thiaminase. Thiamine deficiency can lead to a myriad of problems including neurodegeneration, wasting and death. Tissue Distribution in many living animals is dependent on Thiamine levels. Once Thiaminase is ingested, it has very long lasting effects and does not purge itself from the body. Lack of Thiamine (Vitamin B1) is the primary reason why fish would not be able to properly produce fleshy tissue.


2) Hexamita
The internal form of Hexamita are flagellated protozoans found in the gastrointestinal tract of a wide variety of fishes. It is believed that malabsorption of minerals and vitamins from the intestine due to heavy concentrations the Hexamita parasite makes the fish become nutrient deficient. Important Vitamins such as Vitamin B1, Vitamin K, and Vitamin C will all be absorbed by internal parasites before the fish can properly use and distribute them. This leads to severe malnutrition.


3) Water Quality
Lack of water changes and heavy amounts of 'bioload' make the nutrient level of the water very low. Nitrifying bacteria consumes vitamins and nutrients that are within the water. Larger, Robust fish that produce large amounts of waste are going to have a larger bioload, thus more nitrifying bacteria to consume nutrients. Poorly maintained filtration systems with large amounts of detritus will also create excessive amounts of nitrifying bacteria. Lack of frequent water changes allows the nutrient levels to become quickly depleted in these scenarios.


4) Osmosis
Lack of water changes also compromises the osmoregulation system of the fish. When a fish can not adequately perform osmosis by taking in solids around them, not only are they under constant stress from this, but they are not taking in the nutrients they need. Lack of nutrients from osmosis prohibits the body's ability to produce fleshy tissue. Many hobbyist use vitamin/mineral pyramid blocks to supplement their fish. Frequent water changes also replenish the nutrient needed to aid in osmosis.


5) Nutrition
Poor quality foods will make your fish nutrient deprived. Using cheap brands such as Wardley that is full of fillers and byproducts, does not provide the vitamin and nutrient content that large predatory fish need to re-create their diet in the wild. Low quality foods will also create more physical waste due to fillers, thus creating more nitrifying bacteria.(see above) Most vitamins and nutrients are water soluble, but people mistakingly feed frozen and flake foods. These foods are low in nutrient content. It is better to feed pelletized food, that can be ingested like a pill, in order for the fish to absorb the maximum amount of possible vitamin content. High quality super premium foods, although expensive, are well worth their nutrient content - especially to large carnivorous predators.

And your poimt is?

fishman13218 wrote:

And your poimt is?

Parasites are NOT permanent. You can eradicate them. So no, It's not how they are raised of their quality. People QT for a reason.

External you can rid them. Internal you don't have access to. Good luck your the one with hole in the head. I sell fish everyday and went to college for aquaculture and polyculture. I try to give knowledge but theres always a hobbist who thinks they no more.

Try swapping him to shrimp. Once he gets better then we can worry about getting him to eat processed foods. It can be a long process that involves starving the fish till he will take the food you are offering so we don't want to do that till he is healed.

This may be too late, but I found that Jungle Tank Buddies Parasite Clear to work wonders on HTTH and other parasitic diseases....It contains three of the most commonly recommended anti parasitic medications.

just my two cents but metronidazole or however you spell it works good on HITH. I'm no expert but was under the impression that every fish carries some form or disease in one way shape or form. It when the fish become stressed or introduced to new fish with something they have not built an immunity to that causes them to become sick. or lowers there immunity and the diseases that have laid dormant in them are allowed to take over since the fish cannot fight them off anymore. Nutrient defficiency is also a possible cause. You should really be feeding a balanced diet to all of your fish to make sure they are getting the proper nutrition. Again im no expert, but metro has worked in the past. Also, you can mix it into his food if he is still eating. may want to add some non iodized salt to the tank. Check on that, i'm not that familiar with JDs.