| The Oto Journal | |
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+21WildWiley NajaAkaDoa Kasshan garyzhang19850715 Tmobo sunkenmetal Ben lifeisgood mice&fish1 Keelo istrober mike205 wblueus elfwolfe Elrollo PatrickDominick wildbeanerz whisper alan j t KMX James0816 25 posters |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: The Oto Journal 11/18/2010, 6:26 pm | |
| Some of you might know..but for those that don't....here's my little project: Here's a shot from today: So far I was able to count (41) eggs however (6) were already non-viable.
Last edited by James0816 on 4/19/2011, 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/18/2010, 6:33 pm | |
| 41 that's a good spawn for otos isn't it? I thought they only laid a couple at a time. |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/18/2010, 6:39 pm | |
| Couple at a time in regards to placement of the eggs. My main female laid over 100 over a couple of days.
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KMX Admin
Posts : 16094 Location : Mansfield, TX Favorite Fish: : African Cichlids of all kinds.
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/18/2010, 11:06 pm | |
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alan j t Major
Posts : 791 Location : reno nv Favorite Fish: : discus
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/19/2010, 5:31 am | |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/19/2010, 6:49 am | |
| They've been breeding for over a year and a half now. What was surprising was the adults that were in the holding tank started breeding as well. That was completely unexpected. Especially with how many little ones that have came and gone through that tank. It all goes back to being comfortable with your environment. | |
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whisper Betta Specialist
Posts : 1990 Location : Euless, Texas Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/19/2010, 11:03 am | |
| wow that's exciting. I had read that they don't breed in captivity. | |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/19/2010, 1:28 pm | |
| There have been the occassional reports of having "extra" Otos in the tank, but you're right, there has been no steady captive breeding ..... until now that is. | |
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wildbeanerz Captain
Posts : 1151 Location : Roaring Spring, PA Favorite Fish: : Love my black ocellaris!
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/19/2010, 1:37 pm | |
| Awesome! | |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/20/2010, 3:26 pm | |
| Friends, I can honestly say in a year and a half of doing this, I have never seen anything of likes of what is in the holding tank. Never. I know Mama Oto over in the main tank has had her share of spawns but it just doesn't compare. I'd be willing to bet that there were at least (3) females involved with this spawn session. Absolutely no way of counting the eggs. There are just that many. And, they are litterally everywhere to include the sand! Yes, you read right, they are even laid on the sand!
There are quite a few non-viable eggs and most of those are the ones on the substrate. However, there are still a ton on the sand bed that are good. It seems that almost every plant has eggs on them. No eggs on the glass or driftwood though which I find surprising in that they are on the sand. Very odd.
I'm also wondering if the amount of non-viable ones could be partially my fault as I walked in on them while the spawn was in progress. Just a hunch. I snapped off quite a few shots and getting ready to go through them and see what comes out. There's a bit of current going through the tank due to water level so we'll see what turns out.
Stand by....
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whisper Betta Specialist
Posts : 1990 Location : Euless, Texas Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/20/2010, 3:47 pm | |
| This is very interesting. How many males do you thing were in with the three females? | |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/20/2010, 4:29 pm | |
| Ok...here are some shots from today: Here's some eggs on a couple of small crypt plants: Eggs on the sand (yellow balls): And here is a shot of newly hatched fry with new eggs below: | |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/20/2010, 4:31 pm | |
| - whisper wrote:
- This is very interesting. How many males do you thing were in with the three females?
There's quite a few adults in here. They stay hidden in the big Java Fern so very hard to get a good head count. | |
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whisper Betta Specialist
Posts : 1990 Location : Euless, Texas Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/20/2010, 5:03 pm | |
| So I'm guessing that the adults don't eat the eggs like in catfish right? | |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/20/2010, 5:21 pm | |
| Not that I have ever seen. If anything, they would get knocked off a leaf if they are grazing. Which could be the reason for so many eggs on the ground.
Just got back from removing non viable from the leaves. Counted just over (60) on the ground. There were about (12) on leaves. The light went out before I could suck them out but that will be ok until tomorrow. The Java Fern is just littered with eggs. All up in there.
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PatrickDominick Private
Posts : 22 Location : Fort Worth Favorite Fish: : Small pretty ones mostly
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/20/2010, 6:03 pm | |
| From what I've read of oto's breeding, there was current to trigger it. Could you share all about your experience, like: water parameters tank size plants substrate filter/s how it is set up light cycle water change schedule what you feed your otos
And anything else I can't think of that you think might be useful to others who might want to breed them. I'd love to breed some one day.
Your pictures are really good. Can't wait to hear more about this spawn :) | |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/21/2010, 6:05 pm | |
| Pretty busy day seperating good eggs from bad. Some of the eggs were non-viable and started fuzzing up. Problem is, they were next to good eggs. Had to get them seperated. Some were pretty easy as I just took a needle and was able thread it through the good and bad and then seperate. Others were a little more difficult. I would up removing the group of eggs which were mostly groups of three with one bad egg. I would scrape them off where they would fall on the ground. Then, using a dosing syringe, suck them out and place them in a lid with water. Then using two needles would seperate them. The good eggs were placed back in the tank. Here's and example: What was very interesting, is the second group that I seperated, when the eggs were released back into the tank, they were hatching. Way kewl! One egg got to about two inches from the substrate when the fry guy broke loose and swam to a near by leaf of a sag. I would probably have to say it's about 50/50 from good to bad. There are fry guys all over the tank and eggs still waiting to hatch. I'm still astonished as to how many total eggs there are in this tank. I think tomorrow I'll be able to start removing all the bad ones. Here's a few more shots from today: This is a pretty good developmental shot: And a couple of new fry guys: | |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/21/2010, 6:16 pm | |
| - PatrickDominick wrote:
- From what I've read of oto's breeding, there was current to trigger it.
This is not actually true to be honest with you. At least what I have learned and observed during this project. I have changed almost every variable I can think of to see what would "trigger" the spawn. They spawned regardless of change. Which broadens the mystery. But to answer your other questions: tank size - 10 to 20gplants - wide assortment from crypts to stems and mosses. I can break it down completely if you want. There is different flora in each tank.substrate - SMS and Pool Filter sandfilter/s - Standard HOBhow it is set up - Not sure what you mean on this onelight cycle - 10hr photo periodwater change schedule - 10-20% weeklywhat you feed your otos - They are fed an assortment of feeds from Kens Veggies Flakes and sticks to regular fish flakes, Snailo and fresh blanched zucchini. | |
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PatrickDominick Private
Posts : 22 Location : Fort Worth Favorite Fish: : Small pretty ones mostly
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/23/2010, 8:40 am | |
| How it is set up as in if you have driftwood or a power jet creating current or other fish or anything else I guess in the tank that may have an influence on your success. On substrate, sorry I don't know it but what is SMS? Do you know what your pH is? 10 hr photo period. Why not 12? Just wondering (and it could be a factor). Your tanks don't sound too different from mine. I'm amazed that you are breeding these guys! I give you props and stand in awe of your achievement. | |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/23/2010, 8:57 am | |
| Thanks and I don't mind answering your questions at all. Feel free to ask away.
In the main breeder (this was the first tank I started the project with), there is no driftwood. Other tanks have a couple small manzanita pieces but I'm going to be getting rid of those.
The only current in the tanks is via the outflow of HOB filters. I do run airstones at night due to injecting DIY CO2. No power heads are used.
My apologies on the substrate. SMS is Soil Master Select. It's a great medium for planted tanks and has since been discontinued. It was replaced by a product called Turface. I'll be picking up a couple bags of this soon as well as trying a natural home made substrate.
I like to keep my pH around 7.4. Other parms I keep pretty steady as well: GH: 4 - KH 5 (these fluctuate a little with the CO2), temp is around 76-78. On the low side now with winter coming in. NitrAtes will be in the ballpark of 20 for the plants. Which is also why the photo period is 10hrs. I dose dry ferts as well and have found the balance in the tank. | |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Update 26-Nov-2010 11/26/2010, 9:46 am | |
| Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving. Morning check of things was promising and yet strange at the same time.
Yet another spawn taking place right now in the holding tank. [scratches head]. Two females engaged in this one that I observed. Here's the interesting part of it. While the tank parms are showing ok, the tank itself is not all the great. Zucchini that was placed in the tank two days ago has fuzzed over and of course it's a bit on the messy side with the feeding of the new fry. Found a few roaming around this morning, so at there are some survivors from last spawn.
I'm still going to do a large, well...25% water change today. Hopefully won't disrupt things too much. There are still some bad eggs in there from last spawn that I wanted to get cleaned out.
That's the good thing about research. Just when you think you have a grasp on things...they can change in the blink of an eye. ;o)
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Elrollo Major
Posts : 870 Location : Virginia Beach Favorite Fish: : Blue Acaras...first fish I ever breed still have a soft spot for them
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/26/2010, 10:44 am | |
| nice work james...love my ottos but it never even occured to me they might breed in my tank...
Are there any other fish in with the ottos??? | |
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whisper Betta Specialist
Posts : 1990 Location : Euless, Texas Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/26/2010, 11:47 am | |
| Those fry are soooooooooooooooo adorable. Good job!! | |
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James0816 Captain
Posts : 1194 Location : Spotsylvania, VA Favorite Fish: : Stingrays
Otocinclus Catfish
Kuhli Loaches
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/26/2010, 4:35 pm | |
| - Elrollo wrote:
- nice work james...love my ottos but it never even occured to me they might breed in my tank...
Are there any other fish in with the ottos??? Thanks and only shrimp and briggs for the most part with them. | |
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elfwolfe Chief Wrnt. Off. 2
Posts : 381 Location : San Antonio, TX Favorite Fish: : graduating from community fish to aggressive fish (cichlids), but will always have a soft spot for my krbs and betta's.
| Subject: Re: The Oto Journal 11/26/2010, 7:11 pm | |
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