I'm trying salt

I have been trying to learn more about salt water and corals and such..... but I think to learn I need to do....
I'm thinking of doing a tank with mostly corals and stuff and possibly one fish.... some relatively hardy stuff to start with.
I need help deciding on a good tank size, I have 10, 20g, 20 long or 30 available for this. I will probably go the cheaper route and seed base rock. Not sure when this will happen but I would like to know how involved a tank like that would be. I'm sure I could get a few low end frags and a bit of live rock to start with. This would be a slow tank, no rushing I want to learn as I go. I know I will need to spend a bit on lights and a skimmer...... and what else would be needed for a reef tank? and what size would be best to start with, I need a balance of cost and stability size.

I have a 30g biocube. I have had it running since christmas. It is easy, but when things get out of whack, everything dies fast. Another thing is if a fish gets ick(and they will) it is almost impossible to treat with coral.

Having said that, I love it and I am still a novice, so there are others that can help more. I can help on what not to do, because the first month or so I did it all. But it all worked out.

Awesome Pics. Good luck on the salt water tank Fern.

Fern use the biggest tank you got available it will be easier on you.Very nice Biocube!

Biocube is well done. Awesome!

the bigger the tank the more lr you need.

I know a bigger tank makes the water balance easier but the equipment and live rock and sand is more....
This will be mainly so I can learn a whole lot more about salt tanks, If I enjoy it I can always move to a larger tank. I plan on getting all the equipment used to help with the cost of it all. I will start with common and easy critters, so that way when I screw up I'm not out too much money.
so a tank with soft and stony corals and inverts and possibly one fish would be referred to as a ????? tank?
So it sounds like a 30g is the place to start. I have a few hundred in store credit and I dont really need too much for my other tanks sop I will have some start up money.

Music, so what should I not do? Knowing what not to do is just as important as knowing what to do!

I would love to start one but then I wouldnt be able to spend as much money on cichlids!

Fern, I just set up my first salty a couple of months ago as well. One of the important things I have learn is to know when I need to add fresh water. With a smaller tank you will need to do this more often or this has been so in my case. Also Ick is a pain to get rid of, I had a out break and because I had critters that could not stand up to a lot of the treatments I almost found it impossible to get rid of it. Cleaner crew is really important too. If you dont stock a good cleaner crew you can get Cyanobactria (sp) which can be a pain to get rid of as well (learn this the hard way). How ever I would not trade my salty for anything at this point. My Lawnmower Blenny is tons of fun to watch, even if he is not flashy. I also have mine next to my chair (20 gallon) with a magnifying glass. You will be amazed at how many things you find in your live rock and new things keep showing up all the time. I have found two baby Feather Dusters in the past 3 weeks.

Ghoulish_chaos wrote:

I would love to start one but then I wouldnt be able to spend as much money on cichlids!

i second that, been looking at alot of saltwater tanks with corals lately, and they make me want one.

seminole, what all falls under 'cleaner crew'?
With all of this talk about ick being a pain to get rid of I may go fishless and just go with some funky inverts....

I will be doing SW soon also.When you set it up let me know how it goes.

FERN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
goin salty isnt all that hard!.just alil complicated.LOL
its true the bigger the volume of water the better and easier it is to maintain the tank. thats wghy its prefered to use a sump or refugium on sw tanks!!
but ehh if u just watch everything carefully lik u know u will the tank wud be just fine!!!
another thing.....their is a huge argument on wether u need a skimmer or not!! if ur goin with mainly corals and just 1 fish u shud be super ok without a skimmer! ur tank with 1 fish wont have a huge bioload at all. a weekly water change of a cpl cpl % wud be fine! their are SO many ppl i know that dont run skimmers!!!!
but then again skimmers do have their benefits. more oxygen and water movement.
ur main things in SW are lighting and water movement!! corals NEED good water flow for them to be happy and kolorfull!! ur LR wud be ur filtertration
another important thing is ur "cuc" (clean up crew) snails, crabs, shrimp they do all the hard work in keeping ur tank clean and free of algea!!!
im currently workin on my 20L SW aio project! im goin skimmerless
im tryin to go for this

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=202837

this guy ended up goin skimmerless and all he has workin his tank is a maxxijet power head for the return and a mp10. THATS IT!!! look at how KLEAN his tank came out to be!!!

so good luck on ur venture into the SW world hope i helped u a lil on ur thoughts bout this stuff

Dont let the Ick scare you out of having a couple of fish. Just if you do get it you have to use care in treating for it. Not really any different from treating a fresh water tank that has good snails. IMO a Lawnmower Blenny is a must lol. Not only are they fun to watch but they will eat algae off your live rock and sometimes off your glass. Mine leaves funny looking little "kiss" marks if he has been on my glass.
If you want to do corals you need to always make sure any thing you add is "reef safe". Dwarf Hermit crabs are good part of a cleaner crew but there are other types of crabs who will nip at your corals. Again a cleaner crew is very important. I have learn from my mistake and am currently working on building my cleaner crew at this time. And it does not matter if you have fish or not, your corals will have to be fed so you still need cleaners to eat the extra stuff and to sift threw your sand bed. Here is a good website that I use to look up items. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=420
There is also a few places based right there in Florida that do free shipping for Florida residents. I will find those for you later today.
Over all I am going to tell you to go for it! Yes its trial and era and even though I researched (which I am finding I did not do very well lol) I made my fair share of mistakes. But its worth it and once you get the hang of everything you will find it to be very rewarding. If you enjoy discovering new things get you a magnifying glass and watch your live rock as it starts to "grow" new stuff. I dont think there has been a week that has passed that I have not found something new that makes me go "Oh cool what is that!". I am no expert but I will be happy to try and help you along the way and if nothing else we can have fun learning together :-)

you can do it.

I would probably get everything from my lfs, I am working there some for store credit.
Oh wow the cleaner crew guys aren't expensive like I figured they would be (haven't been looking at prices yet)
so with live rock its a pound per gallon?
It will be a little bit before I get moving on this, I need to upgrade a bunch of my FW fish into larger tanks first but once I get everyone settled I will start working on this. But any info yall can throw at me would be great!

ilicurtisili wrote:

the bigger the tank the more lr you need.

Not true. Technically you don't need Live Rock OR Live Sand in your actual fish tank.. with a full size setup sump and refugium the deep sand bed in your refugium along with the refugium elements such as macro algae, mangroves and so on your tank can be bare.. so very little live rock is fine even none.. The only reason you are told to get so much live rock is to help filter your water. you can do this if not better by doing simple water changes..

dont get my wrong.. i have cr@p load of Live Rock.. but its for looks and a place to put all my coral.. BUT it is not needed.. so "The Bigger the tank the more live rock you need" is really not true.. so those who are afraid of going big because of live rock you need not to worry.

Saltwater is not hard, nor is it complicated OR expensive.. Unless you make it hard, complicated and expensive..

If you dont care about super fancy setups then you will save money there.. then you next factor is reef or fish only? reef is 4 times more expensive depending on the coral you like..

BUT as far as the expense to setup a tank is not much worse than a FW tank.. Depending on the size the items needed can vary.. please let me know your situation and size of tank you would like to use and i can guide you the best way into your SW venture. I have many years of experience in this hobby.

I will most likely go with a 30g
It will be reef with a variety of the different kinds of corals and soft corals, I need to learn more about them so to learn I need to do.
I will probably wait to add any fish till I get the hang of it better.
I can use an aqua clear filter as a refuguim with macro algae correct? What size would be best
I have various powerheads that I was going to get rid of but it sounds like I will need them for this tank?

Any help is much appreciated! I'm still pretty salt dumb

AC70 and AC100s work best!!!!
yes u will need powerheads!!
water flow and water movement is a BIG MUST in sw!!!

I would avoid using an HOB filter. It can cause a lot of salt creep which can be a mess.. I would go with a fluval 305 and a HOB refugium. That is all you will need. Maybe a HOB protein skimmer as well depending on your bio-load.

Could I use a cascade canister? I HATE fluvals.....
What are the hob refugiums? How much do those run?
I will probably go fishless for a while till I get the hang of it all.

hob fuges are kool!!!
some have built in skimmers and mini sumps!!! also some even come with their own compact lights!
they range from 41$ to 350$!!!!
they are pretty nice!!!
check em out!!

http://fish-supplies.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/search?p=Q&lbc=drsfsaquatics&w=refugium&af=cat1:fish%20type:product&isort=score&method=and&ts=results&rt=template_switch_search

Would I need a refugium if I go fishless?

i wud have one any way!!!

But would I need it? If I added fish later could I just add a refugium later as well? Or is there another reason to keep the macro algae and 'bugs' separate?