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 Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!

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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/13/2011, 1:29 pm

My half-King CT female is looking for love. Jumped over the divider in my shrimp tank to see the irridescent black HM male. Apparently, he's WAY too young for that, showed horizontal striping and hid in the plants.

Sooooooo, I swapped the Dark Black DT male (another youngster) out of the corner of Copper Man's tank and put half-king CT female in there. I'd just taken out the air filter yesterday when I added even more plants. (heavily planted tank in a window). So I up'd the heater to 80F and floated some squares of bubble wrap on the surface. Only things in there besides the bettas are snails, algae eater and Amano shrimp (which are successfully breeding in all my tanks!) I Know it's not the 'pro' setup for breeding - but my planted tanks come first and it'll be more 'natural' for the fry.

I've had Copper man and half-king since early Feb - so I know they're both old enough. I'm not too worried if some of the shrimp larvae end up as fry food. I also have plenty of brine shrimp being used in a research project by my students right now. So, fingers crossed that he'll start building nest and she'll jump over when ready. I've got a TON of research paper to do this week, so I'll be observing them for hours as I type away.

Here's the pics from back in Feb when they were younger. Copper Man's grown into a HM with lacy-end finnage. Hope for a bunch of black-gene split daughters. Have two unrelated black males needing mates next year!
[img]Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! New_be10[/img][img]Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! New_be11[/img]
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sassynurse2
Moderator
Moderator
sassynurse2

Posts : 789
Location : Grand Prairie Texas
Favorite Fish: : 2 Clown Loaches...
Blue Dolphins 10.


Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/14/2011, 9:00 am

hope yah have a spawn soon

**********USAfishbox.com*************


Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! 395554 Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! CMSIG
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/14/2011, 8:30 pm

Ideally Bettas should be breed in a bar bottom tank so the male can see and collect the eggs. With your set up I'm afraid the male will not be able to collect the eggs and they will end up being eaten by the algae eater and the shrimp. If in fact they do make it to hatching they will make a nice afternoon snack for the shrimp. The newly hatched fry will still have to be collected by the male which will give the shrimp time to get at them while the father is looking for them. If you still want to use the planted tank I would definitely take the algae eater and shrimp out. Well you may have a few that make it so good luck and keep us posted............Oh by the way. What is a half King?
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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/20/2011, 5:50 pm

Half king is a female thats carrying half-king genes. So she's much bigger than other females. (double size)

Apparently, the planted tank is to stimulating for copper man to think about women. He's too busy patrolling through the plants constantly to be bothered. In fact, half-king jumped over Monday night and looked like she was laying eggs. He didn't seem to care about anything but trying to pick at her side.

Thinking that I'm going to have to put him in a big floating tuppaware by himself for a week or two. Get him lonely and bored so he'll build a bubble nest. Hubby won't let me have another tank in the house. So maybe doing it this way I won't damage the plants and can just dump fry into the planted tank when they're swimming strong? Thinking about a 12"x5"x4" deep tuppaware container - like I use to store pencils/markers in at work. Floating in the 80F tank will keep temp steady.

Now, how to get the thing to float 1/2" above water line... hmmmm.. maybe hotglue some bubblewrap along the outside of the lip?
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/20/2011, 6:23 pm

She won't lay eggs without him wrapping around her. They don't lay eggs. They drop out of her when he wraps around her and as they fall he fertilizes them. He will get very frustrated trying to find them as they fall in among all the plants and what ever else is in the tank and get eaten by what ever else is in the tank. If your going to float him in something make sure it is clear enough so he can see her good. Also if it is deeper instead of long it will float better. The best thing would be to put her in a hurricane type of vase or jar and put that right into the water. That way if he does build a nest it will already be in the tank all ready for her. This is a very bad set up for Betta breeding but hey I guess it's worth a try.
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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/20/2011, 7:07 pm

Don't know, sure looked like she dropped something besides poop after she jumped over the divider. She's been behind glass in the corner of the tank since. So both of them could easily see each other. He hasn't bothered to build anything. Has just been patrolling his region, threatening her every time he goes by the glass divider.

Here's what they did last weekend. Once he started pulling scales off of her sides, I netted her and put her back into her corner. She swam slow, not fighting him in the least. Waiting for him to twist around her, which he never did.
Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Open?id=0B550D-p70J2IMjhkYTJjZGUtMGQ0MC00ZjE4LWIxZWYtMTQ5MGVjOTAyNTg1
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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/20/2011, 7:15 pm

Apparently you can't load GoogleDocs onto here. And since that's all my Droid loads directly to.... well...

So here's the link for the pictures:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B550D-p70J2IMjhkYTJjZGUtMGQ0MC00ZjE4LWIxZWYtMTQ5MGVjOTAyNTg1

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B550D-p70J2IMTE5ZTQzZjktNmFhYS00YjViLTllNTktMjdhNGVkOTFlNWZl
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/20/2011, 7:42 pm

She may be to big for him to wrap around. He has to get a full wrap around her. Be very watchful of them when you do put them together again with him nipping at her like that. I have had males kill females and females kill males. Also I had a females once who was so full of eggs they did just drop out of her but of course they didn't get fertilized by him so they were a waste of eggs.LOL but this is very rare. She does look very full or did you just feed her before you took those pictures. here is a picture of a good wrap. His nose should almost touch his fins on the other side around her.

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! 000_3813

If he has done a good wrap she will be temporarily lay stunned. This is normal.
Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! 000_3808
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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/20/2011, 7:47 pm

Do you think because she's got king genes, this may not be a compatible female for normal males?
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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/20/2011, 7:49 pm

Oh, and she hadn't been fed for at least four hours prior to this
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/20/2011, 9:04 pm

What the heck. The pictures didn't show. Well here they are.
The wrap
Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! 000_3813

Her after the wrap. She will come to in a few seconds and help collect the eggs but watch her to make sure she's not just eating them.
Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! 000_3808

the genes shouldn't make a difference unless he feels that she's to big and he can't wrap her.
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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/27/2011, 8:40 am

Well, sticking copperman in the large shallow floating tuppaware seems to have done the trick in switching his mind onto breeding. Bubbles everywhere after 4 days! He seems to like the bubblewrap that the breeders on bettasplendas rave about, though he doesn't have a real nest made yet. I did go yesterday and purchase some frozen mixed carnivore cubes - that's all PetCo carries.

Debating on which day to put half-king CT female in there (in a little clear betta tank). How long will it take for her to be ready to lay again- since we know she was ready last weekend? She's now in a small tank with some female guppies that we're conditioning with the same foods.
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

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PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/27/2011, 9:45 am

If she seem to be healed up from the last time you could try putting her in with him again. Keep in mind that the courtship is very violent. It can go on for three to four days before spawning. Do it at a time when you can be home to keep and eye on them. I have had females that have had all there fins nipped off but they eventually did spawn. She will run away from him sometimes for days before spawning but eventually she will come over to the nest area. All of this is normal but it is very hard to watch the violence. The actual spawning is like a beautiful ballet though. That main part of you being there is so you can take the female out as soon as the spawning is done. She will sometimes help him collect the eggs during spawning but the way to tell if they are done is that he will get violent with her again and chase her way from the nest. This is when he can do real damage to her. Put her in a jar with very clean water and a few drops of meds to help her heal. Do wc on her water daily until she seems to be healed up. Good luck and keep me posted.
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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/27/2011, 10:06 am

So, should I put her in a container in there on Wed - then dump her into his area Friday afternoon when I get home? That way I can watch them all next weekend if needbe.

She wasn't too damaged last time. I pulled her out after watching him nip her three or four times.
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/27/2011, 10:58 am

Yes that sounds like a good plan. Try not to take her out this time. I know it's hard to watch but it's all normal for them (unless you can clearly see that she is dying.) If his nest gets recked don't worry he will rebuild. I have had males that don't build a nest until they are spawning. How big is the container they will be spawning in? At Least 2.5g I hope with the water level no deeper then 4-5". I don't know how big your piece of bubble wrap is but be sure you will have an opening were you can slip a net in gently to get the female out after spawning so not to disturb the nest of eggs. Also there should be enough open area for them to breath. While your waiting for next week end keep conditioning them with the frozen bloodworms.
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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/27/2011, 11:12 am

Container is similar dimensions. Floating bubblewrap square is only about 3"x3" like the breeders on the other chat discussed. The male is focusing a lot of his bubbles under it just like they say theirs do.

Guess next Friday is the target date.... Now back to creating this ppt for Acids that I'm trying to avoid doing! grrrrrrr.........
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/27/2011, 11:23 am

Another great thing to use for bubble nest building is frogbit plant. It floats and he builds right in it. This also feeds the fry as soon as they hatch because it is full of microorganisms. I have used it and it works great.
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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/27/2011, 11:40 am

Never heard of it. Do you have some for sale?
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime11/27/2011, 11:52 am

No I don't sorry. You can get it on Ebay. It's a tiny little plant that floats and spreads.
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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime12/4/2011, 11:17 am

Well, they've been together since Friday. Apparently, Half-king female got tired of being beaten up by Copper man and shredded some of his fins. He's still chasing her around, but then goes and chills behind the plants. I'll give them until this evening before I separate them and let him grow back his fins.
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime12/4/2011, 11:27 pm

To early to separate them. If you keep taking him or her out you'll never get them to spawn. What you're describing is all normal for them.
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lifeisgood
Captain
Captain
lifeisgood

Posts : 1154
Location : Beaverton , MI
Favorite Fish: : My Favorites are the Pleco's and Cory Cats . BUT , I have 44 running Tanks at this time . I keep 3 kinds of Shellies , several types of Pleco's ( mostly Ancistrus ), Cichlids , Crays , Angels , LB's , and some local species .

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime12/5/2011, 4:46 am

you can get frogbit cheaper on AquaBid.com

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?liveplantsf&1323200752
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime12/5/2011, 2:50 pm

Oh that's way to big. There is some that is very tiny leafed.
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2SciCrazed
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
2SciCrazed

Posts : 650
Location : Middle TN
Favorite Fish: : Anything that's not belly up!

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime12/28/2011, 10:52 am

It has become obvious that I'm too softhearted to try and breed my bettas again. This said, I have a young Black Dragon HM that is just too unusual not to try. So if there is an experienced breeder in KY/TN that is interested in partnering - I would be willing to loan him out.

Here is a pic from when I first got him. He's grown since then and has very 'dragon scaled' finnage.... Will try to get a better pic soon. It's hard since he's always on the move in his corner of the shrimp tank.

Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! 2011-017
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Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Going to try to breed Copper Man this week!   Going to try to breed Copper Man this week! Icon_minitime

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