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 Male fin type

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Meredith
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
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Meredith

Posts : 472
Location : Kingston, Missouri
Favorite Fish: : As far as fresh water goes, it's Bettas!
For marine fish; Firefish, Cardinalfish, Gobies, Dragonets, and Sharks...

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PostSubject: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/6/2011, 9:27 pm

Just curious.... Is it the male that determines the "fin type" (i.e. Crown tail, Double tail, Halfmoon) of the offspring, or does the female also have a part in determining what the fins will ultimately be?

That's just something I have always wondered but never knew anyone that I could ask! lol!
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fishface30
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant


Posts : 614
Location : St, Louis, MO
Favorite Fish: : Discus, Angelfish, Rummynose Tetras

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/6/2011, 9:42 pm

Hmm that's a good question! I've always thought yes, since the females don't show fin type for the most part? Does that mean that with females we really don't know what we're getting if we're using them from big box to breeding? Like do serious breeders get pedigreed females for breeding and keep track of theit genetic lines because of that?
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Meredith
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Meredith

Posts : 472
Location : Kingston, Missouri
Favorite Fish: : As far as fresh water goes, it's Bettas!
For marine fish; Firefish, Cardinalfish, Gobies, Dragonets, and Sharks...

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/6/2011, 9:48 pm

fishface30 wrote:
Hmm that's a good question! I've always thought yes, since the females don't show fin type for the most part? Does that mean that with females we really don't know what we're getting if we're using them from big box to breeding? Like do serious breeders get pedigreed females for breeding and keep track of theit genetic lines because of that?

Wow. You asked that question WAY better than I did! lol! But you're right...you can't really tell the difference from one female to the next, which has always intrigued me as to how you breed for a specific type.

Yeah, I've had way too much coffee today. crazy
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fishface30
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant


Posts : 614
Location : St, Louis, MO
Favorite Fish: : Discus, Angelfish, Rummynose Tetras

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/6/2011, 10:07 pm

LOL you should try being WIDE awake at 2-3am commenting on posts...
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Meredith
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Meredith

Posts : 472
Location : Kingston, Missouri
Favorite Fish: : As far as fresh water goes, it's Bettas!
For marine fish; Firefish, Cardinalfish, Gobies, Dragonets, and Sharks...

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/6/2011, 10:23 pm

O geez! If it weren't for the tylenol pm, I probably WOULD be! affraid
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/6/2011, 10:24 pm

yes we serious breeders do keep track of the gene types. And the fins are determined by both the male and the female. For instance the female could have DT(Double tail) in her genes maybe years ago and it can then be passed on to the males in a spawn. Breeding Bettas is always like Christmas because you never know what your going to get.LOL Same goes for the coloring. These of course are very simple examples. Breeding for different types of genes can get very complicated.
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fishface30
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant


Posts : 614
Location : St, Louis, MO
Favorite Fish: : Discus, Angelfish, Rummynose Tetras

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 12:24 am

Are some traits found to be recessive or dominant? What about eye color, is that a trait that is bred, because i don't see a lot of prize bettas with matching eye color. I've seen some that I've thought, "man he'd be really nice id he had blue eyes to go with the fins.
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strikingthematch
Captain
Captain
strikingthematch

Posts : 1118
Location : Virginia Beach, VA
Favorite Fish: : Discus, Stingrays, Arowana, Rams, and Angels

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 7:33 am

I wondered this awhile ago as well. I found http://www.bettas-jimsonnier.com/genetics.htm

That site as a great read. Helps to understand the basic genetics at work with these fish. The problem is that they have been mixed so intensely that until you breed the parents out you will never know what genes they carry.
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Flippercon
Moderator
Moderator
Flippercon

Posts : 1260
Location : Virginia Beach, VA
Favorite Fish: : Electric Blue Rocio Octofasciata

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 7:54 am

I have a 3 female bettas ( I like them better), but one was sold as a female crowntail and she definitly has the crowntail compaired to the other two.

**********USAfishbox.com*************


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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 10:27 am

The eyes are always black unless of course it is albino which is very rare and they are usually blind. Genetics are very hard to track because of so much breeding so even if you buy and breed two Halfmoons you can get all kinds in a batch. I know one of the top breeders in the country who breeds nothing but Halfmoons. In one of her batches even after she had been breeding for years she got some Plakets and in another batch she got some Doubletails so like I said it's like Christmas or a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. this also goes for coloring. I had a Black Melano HM that I bred to a very dark blue female of course I was trying to get more of the rare blacks. No such luck. The whole batch was marbles, blues, and believe it or not, whites.
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Meredith
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
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Meredith

Posts : 472
Location : Kingston, Missouri
Favorite Fish: : As far as fresh water goes, it's Bettas!
For marine fish; Firefish, Cardinalfish, Gobies, Dragonets, and Sharks...

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 10:58 am

This kind of stuff is just so interesting to me. I can't get enough! Genetics and how they're expressed just absolutely amazes me.
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 11:15 am

Meredith if you are interested in genetics here is some information on the Geno verses melano genes. Very interesting and very complicated. LOL

http://www.bettatalk.com/geno_verse_pheno.htm
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fishface30
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant


Posts : 614
Location : St, Louis, MO
Favorite Fish: : Discus, Angelfish, Rummynose Tetras

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 11:22 am

good link striking. I've often wondered if one day betta breeding would ever be as strong as say, fancy goldfish. Now I wonder if goldfish are a mix bag too. I get the feeling they are a but more advanced since they've been bred longer than bettas for certain traits.


I've had a female betta once that had blue eyes, and thought if she could be crossed with a male with beautiful fins. It would have been a pretty combo.
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 11:30 am

Fish, Betta breeding has been going on for hundreds of years in Asia. Asians are the biggest exporters of Bettas world wide. It's not by any means new. It's just that it has caught on in resent years to the general public.... I would like to have seen your Betta with Blue eyes. She certainly would have been a rare fin

Striking posted the website of Jim Sonnier. He is one of the top Breeders of Bettas in this counrty and is a judge at many of the Betta shows. Good man.
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Meredith
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Meredith

Posts : 472
Location : Kingston, Missouri
Favorite Fish: : As far as fresh water goes, it's Bettas!
For marine fish; Firefish, Cardinalfish, Gobies, Dragonets, and Sharks...

Male fin type Empty
PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 11:55 am

Thanks Whisper! LOVED reading through that!

I was really into that when I was breeding my guinea pigs years ago and trying to set my type.
Now, like with my real pigs, I'm not worried about setting a type or anything since I'm only breeding for feeders or replacement breeders should someone want one, but I get a kick out of the duke's mixture I get with every litter. I have 1 boar and 1 sow, and the variety in their piglets is just cool! My sow is a white (with some dark freckling on her skin that doesn't darken her hair color) York/Hamp cross with prick ears, and my boar is a white Spot/Duroc cross with flop ears and lots of spots. Their offspring are a mixture of whites, red and white, red with spots...some with prick ears, some with flop ears...some with curly tails like their daddy, some with straight tails like their momma. It's so awesome!

This is Matilda and Einstein (who was about 10 months old here).
Male fin type 100_4610

This is a pic of their last litter born earlier this year.
Male fin type Piggie10
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Male fin type Empty
PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 12:01 pm

OMG those piglets are so dang cute. Wish they would stay like that. LOL. Yes the varieties in the same batch are amazing with fish and animals alike.
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fishface30
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant


Posts : 614
Location : St, Louis, MO
Favorite Fish: : Discus, Angelfish, Rummynose Tetras

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 12:14 pm

Dang. I knew I forgot to get some bacon yesterday while at the store. double smoked, thick cut... HEAVEN!

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Meredith
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Meredith

Posts : 472
Location : Kingston, Missouri
Favorite Fish: : As far as fresh water goes, it's Bettas!
For marine fish; Firefish, Cardinalfish, Gobies, Dragonets, and Sharks...

Male fin type Empty
PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 12:38 pm

I agree, Whisper....though I think pigs are cute no matter how old they get...kinda like cows :)

Fish... Now you went and made me hungry! Think I'll make me some bacon, eggs, and biscuits for lunch! lol!
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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Male fin type Empty
PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 12:56 pm

Oh Meredith I'm starving. I'll be right over in a few minutes for lunch!
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Meredith
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Meredith

Posts : 472
Location : Kingston, Missouri
Favorite Fish: : As far as fresh water goes, it's Bettas!
For marine fish; Firefish, Cardinalfish, Gobies, Dragonets, and Sharks...

Male fin type Empty
PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 2:08 pm

I made plenty! C'mone over! Male fin type 395554
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fishface30
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant


Posts : 614
Location : St, Louis, MO
Favorite Fish: : Discus, Angelfish, Rummynose Tetras

Male fin type Empty
PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 2:31 pm

can you ship to St. Louis? LOL
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Meredith
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Chief Wrnt. Off. 4
Meredith

Posts : 472
Location : Kingston, Missouri
Favorite Fish: : As far as fresh water goes, it's Bettas!
For marine fish; Firefish, Cardinalfish, Gobies, Dragonets, and Sharks...

Male fin type Empty
PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 3:33 pm

I could always meet ya in columbia... of course it will be cold by then... haha
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fishface30
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant


Posts : 614
Location : St, Louis, MO
Favorite Fish: : Discus, Angelfish, Rummynose Tetras

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/7/2011, 3:51 pm

LOL
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jaiko1975
Moderator
Moderator
jaiko1975

Posts : 980
Location : hollywood FL

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PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/8/2011, 10:20 am

that some good bacon? how can u mix pigs and bacon in the same sentence..lmao

**********USAfishbox.com*************


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whisper
Betta Specialist
Betta Specialist
whisper

Posts : 1990
Location : Euless, Texas
Favorite Fish: : Betta's,Fancy Guppies, Plecos, kio.

Male fin type Empty
PostSubject: Re: Male fin type   Male fin type Icon_minitime10/8/2011, 11:56 am

Pig bacon pig bacon pig bacon!!!!! Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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